Autor Tema: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook  (Leído 14817 veces)

edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #45 en: Noviembre 26, 2009, 04:55:56 pm »
It looks like sending a flag message cancels out a voice message, yes?

Since they are 2 different things, one instant, the other taking several minutes, one done by the captain, the other by the signal officer, you should be able to do both in the same turn.
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Munrox

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #46 en: Noviembre 27, 2009, 12:19:14 am »
Yes, it seems reasonable, but it requires some modifications to be done to the code. Anyway, maybe the captain is busy ensuing orders to her crew (sails, course, guns, ...) and have no time to think what message he want to send by flags and then going to shout to the other ship. Of course if the captain was a woman then she could do many things at the same time.  :)

edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #47 en: Enero 26, 2010, 09:22:32 pm »
Unofficial flag key-

There are 70 words/ideas listed in Wishgamers official Signal Quick Reference, but the multi-flag words are seperated from the main list which can lead to mis-translations. Mistranslation cause confusion on the part of the captains and frustration for the admirals, and can cause havoc in a fleet maneuver.

In an attempt to obviate this complication, I have made a decoding key combining the 2 types of signals. If you have any suggestions please comment.



* This key does not ignore that fact that we are presently using a mixture of two code systems, a one flag to one word system for the first #1- 25 (actually even that isn't pure) and a multi-flag system for an additon 20 "word". Many problems come from this basic hibridization which would best be correct either by going completely with one sytem or the other, adding many more flags or by using numbers to represent a large number of naval maneuverings.
« Última modificación: Enero 26, 2010, 09:24:16 pm por Captain Espresso »
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edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #48 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 05:00:10 am »
Apparantly my previoius message either didn't save or was removed.

What do these 2 signals mean?
I have changed the directions to protect the original message


 

                  Fleet

14      19                            12
Van    form line of battle     East

1) ? why would you send a message for the Van, to the entire fleet?


2)
20        10          12           5          11
attack   N           E              sail       south


? what does this mean? It seems clearly... unclear.
?Could there be a spy in the signal room confusing the messages?

3) once again in the Turn after questions 1&2 the admiral says Van do X, Fleet do Y.
Should it not be Van do X, Center & Rear do Y? Perhaps the admiral needs to retake the basic signal class.
« Última modificación: Febrero 05, 2010, 05:51:04 am por Captain Espresso »
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Mike Sholo

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #49 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 05:47:14 am »
Maybe I am joking, but…

1)   The Admiral informs to all the fleet that the Vanguard is goint to form the Line to the East and everyone have to follow them   :)

2)   clearly... nuclear… Navy has to engage enema fleet at NE sailing to the south  ¿?

I enjoy your flag system and I am doing mine now, even if you never anchor  ;)


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edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #50 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 06:05:58 am »
edit*

thanks Mike, I redid mine to make it "by the book" to help newbies, and as you can see, there has not been a single visitor; ha ha.


your reading of  1)  makes sense,
BUT, I never would have gotten that meaning reading it myself.
Because the messages are so short (5) flags, some messages, require interpretation, educated guesses, conjecture about the situation; but this is heresy to written information and naval communications.

I am for expanding the flag halyard, so that they can hold at least 8 flags.
There are other ways to limit over-control without making messages confusing.

« Última modificación: Febrero 05, 2010, 06:24:32 am por Captain Espresso »
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Mike Sholo

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #51 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 06:21:00 am »
Well, I agreed with that, and even, in another recent post I was talking about the problem with the limits, but as in the other hand, I think that, at the end, you always have to set limits. It can be done with five or eight flags, but eventually you have to set a limit.

In my last game, I left the game due to excessive control of the Admiral. I think uncertainty is good, although I agree also that the orders can not misunderstand a game. The average is hard to get   ;)


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edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #52 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 06:45:55 am »
Mike, lay down & drink something cool, preferably with rum; excessive control from an admiral, come now?

I think we could have other limits besides reducing clarity (messages so short there is not clarity). For example limiting how often an admiral can send messages, after all

he has to think of the message (that might take some time)
give it to the flag leutenant,
he has to code it,
find the flags,
run them up the correct mast
they have to be spotted by the correct ship
that flag lietenant informed
the flags written down
decoded
the message taken to the captain.

And that assumes the flags can be seen by each ship and the wrong person isn't cut in half by roundshot. You could say you have to wait 20 min between messages to the same ship. Then of course there is the standard "i'm sorry ican't hear you, you're cutting out. Please repeat message until it is to late."
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Mike Sholo

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #53 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 06:55:08 am »
I get your advice, but I prefer scotish  ;D

I understand what you say, and perhaps is more real, but I think most of the Admirals will prefer to send a message every five minutes (a game turn) to think three or four turns in advance. Maybe you could propouse the possibility of longer messages with more turns, but I fear it is difficult to program and do not see it as necessary.

Anyway, Cheers! :D

And good night (here)  ;)


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edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #54 en: Febrero 05, 2010, 09:57:34 am »
There may be other solutions, but if I can't convince you an open-minded,   fearless , yet quick thinking captain, what hope is there. None the less I iterate the 5 flag limit is too severe and really needless.

It reminds me of that early solution to typewriter keys jamming because the women typist were too fast. Instead of making the machine better to keep up with the speedy typist, they made the women slower (and the entire rest of the world) so the pokey machine machine wasn't stressed, by mixing up the keys in a semi-random order, which is how we got the stupid QWERTY keyboard to this day.

They have tested regular typists taught on an efficiency designed keyboard to type routinely from from 80-100 wpm.                     
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edward pellew

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Has there been a change in signaling?
« Respuesta #55 en: Marzo 20, 2010, 05:02:19 pm »
#446
Triumph at Sea


Has there been a change in captured ships communications? In Finisterre the San Rafael is now British and repeats a signal to Division.

1) Can captured ships now communicate with their NEW division?
2) if this is true, how do you know which division it speaks to?
3) Or is that a  signal to confuse the Spanish? If it is a signal to the spanish, why can I read it?
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Munrox

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #56 en: Marzo 20, 2010, 05:09:48 pm »
1) Yes, now captured ships can communicate with their new side ships.

2) I don't understand this question. A captured ships uses flags as a not captured ship does.

edward pellew

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #57 en: Marzo 20, 2010, 05:35:41 pm »
There have been some changes I am still coming to understand.

Well I don't keep track of who captured every ship, so how do you know which division this new ship is sending orders to?

Because I thought I have been reading messages to all divisions through the fog, which has made things more complicated.
« Última modificación: Marzo 20, 2010, 05:41:25 pm por Captain Espresso »
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Munrox

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Re: Somewhere to discuss about flag's handbook
« Respuesta #58 en: Marzo 20, 2010, 05:47:54 pm »
The name of the recipient appears in the message, I don't know where the doubt comes from.

edward pellew

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Who's on First, a question concerning the meaning of signal flags
« Respuesta #59 en: Junio 03, 2010, 07:20:11 am »

Example:
your ship is in the Vanguard; neither your commander nor the repeater ship is sending a message.
You notice your admiral is sending a message. You mouse over his ship and read the following signal,  and says

                division
FLEE, FLEE, FLEE, Full Sail


Question, which division is that message for, his own, the Center or yours?

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