Velmad

Velmad => Velmad's International Forum => Mensaje iniciado por: Mingonomou en Julio 13, 2008, 12:14:03 am

Título: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Julio 13, 2008, 12:14:03 am
I think is a good idea to devote a single thread to questions and answers. What do you think?

I would like to start with a question. Why my ships cannot fire? We are in Finisterre (fog), the visibility is 644 meters and the enemy is at 389 meters. I don't understand why I cannot open fire. ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 13, 2008, 12:58:53 am
Working again.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Julio 13, 2008, 08:35:50 am
Thanks, Munrox.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 13, 2008, 04:49:15 pm
I have a question about Camperdown?

I never understood what I was doing that the program decided was an attempt to cheat and locked me out?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 13, 2008, 09:54:52 pm
Maybe you were moving an inactive ship repairing hull? Don't know. But don't worry about it. I don't look at that warnings. It is a system in case some day we have problems with someone hacking or trying to do it, so I can trace him.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 14, 2008, 04:57:56 pm
So you are saying it is only a warning; then the one ship I had must have been captured or exploded and with it gone I could not get back in to see what happened.

It seems there could be a way of notifying the captain that he is about to loose his ship other than finding it missing form his Captain's Menu page.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 14, 2008, 06:07:28 pm
You can look at current battles page and search for the turn report.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 15, 2008, 04:50:15 am
Looking for turn report.

do you mean Ship command page/ current battles?
I do not have a column called turn report, only one file and auction for Trafalgar.
Camperdown: the challenge is locked to me.

what does it mean when it says trafalgar is opened?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 15, 2008, 07:00:49 am
It means its auction is on process and players can bid for ships. When auction finished game starts and status reads "playing"

In current battles' list you can click no name, then game's map opens and an options box appears at upper-left corner. There click on info.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS about signals
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 16, 2008, 07:23:58 pm
Maybe I'm reading this signal wrong that appeared on my Quarterdeck screen; isn't this from the enemy fleet? De Genereux is a French ship, I am British.

De Genereux (from squadron leader) x
FAST, FAST
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Julio 16, 2008, 08:18:08 pm
Yeah, you will see all signals within view of your ship displayed. It confused me for a game or two.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 16, 2008, 08:22:05 pm
It is a bug, when a player don't click on "send" after writing a flag message, things like this could happen.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Julio 16, 2008, 08:37:15 pm
Ah, so we only get to intercept certain signals eh? I will have to go on consulting my magic eight ball to divine the enemy's intentions then! ;D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 16, 2008, 08:54:13 pm
I think, the enemy themself sometimes need a magic crystal ball to know what their own signals mean!  :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Julio 16, 2008, 08:57:36 pm
But that is entirely intentional and meant to simulate the fog of war, right? ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Julio 16, 2008, 11:55:40 pm
So I can see their signal flags, but I cannot see their ship?  ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS: gunnery
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 19, 2008, 05:45:47 pm
<<In order to reload double-shot, round shot must be loaded previously into that band.
During the turn that double-shot is reloaded that band cannot be fired.>>

please comment on whether the following sentence is accurate:

In order to fire a double-shot load the gun must aready be loaded with round shot from a previous turn and then loaded again, thus taking an extra turn.









Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Julio 19, 2008, 07:08:48 pm
I am 99% sure that is correct.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 19, 2008, 08:49:47 pm
That is, Vernon. You can not fire for one turn. Next turn double shot is loaded and you can fire normally.

If during reload turn you click on an objective, double shot reload is cancelled. If you click double shot reload, then shooting objective is cancelled.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Julio 19, 2008, 10:37:18 pm
Munrox

The English is understood, but the reality is that you couldn't load round shot and then add some more, you had to decide to load double shot from the start (often with a load of grape or canister as well).

I think this is why double shot was usually only used at the start of an engagement.

I would think that double shot should be a seperate load that always takes two turns, and can't be used as round shot half way through. (However you wouold need to add an otption to allow choice of ammunition load at the start of the game to make it work properly)

CyJan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 19, 2008, 11:36:41 pm
I see your point. But I don't see a real problem, players have more flexibility that in reality but one turn penalization and fatigue penalization are enough, I think. In the games I played I didn't see an irregular use of double shot.

In real life, double shooting overheat guns and is more dangerous and harder to accomplish in combat so it was not usual, mainly only as first shot. I read that Royal Navy, in more modern times that what we play, refused some kind of guns just because they couldn't be doubleshoted so I think double shooting is not totally unusual in combat.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 20, 2008, 05:55:11 am
I hope you are up for plenty of questions, I am working my way through v. 1.2 until 1.3 is ready. This question is from pg.10

<<Grape shot: at close range it is the ammunition of choice for decimating the enemy crew on deck.

1. Its damage against the hull is of 50%
2. fired against the rigging it only produces 1/3 of the damage
3. It causes triple of the losses that the round-shot would do shot to the hull and double of losses that the chain-shot to the rigging.
4. It mays have an effect on morale as shown in the corresponding chapter.>>

#1 says 50% against the hull, #3 says 300%; I am not understanding.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 20, 2008, 09:39:43 am
Hello Vernon, I will try to explain this one.

The "error" is in that that 50% is on regards of damage points to the hull, while the 300% you are referring to is in regards of men lost in combat either dead or wounded.

So if you, the English men... and women? ;) (maybe there is one or two around)think this could be better worded in a different way, just a correction will be welcome for sure my friend

hope this helps
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Julio 20, 2008, 11:57:38 am
Citar
It causes triple of the losses that the round-shot would do shot to the hull and double of losses that the chain-shot to the rigging.

"It causes treble the casualties that round-shot causes when fired at the hull and double the casualties that chain-shot causes when fired at the rigging."
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 21, 2008, 06:11:12 am
I tried pasteing this in but the formating gets scrambled, so please follow link and advise on accuracy of table.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=25074&l=61813&id=541712520
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Julio 21, 2008, 09:19:51 am
He,he...  ;)

Good, Vernon  :) ... Why you don't put your captain's image in your Velmad profile? You only have to put there the internet direction of your image...  8)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 21, 2008, 08:46:12 pm
Excellent Vernon. We could add this to help post (deleting espresso thing  ;D)

(http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v260/125/88/541712520/n541712520_602012_7574.jpg)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 22, 2008, 04:54:46 pm
I'm glad you think it would be helpful.

If you wait a few days I will have a revised version with more information, including what the effects of fatigue are.
I also should have a couple of your graphs translated into English at the same.

PS I hope people are checking the figures for accuracy, I am partly doing this to learn the rules myself.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 23, 2008, 04:47:01 am
1) What are the different areas which fatigue effects and in what way?

1. time to reload guns
a. delayed how many extra turns?
b. how is that calculated?

Any other areas?


2) pg 09 says that Beginner & Normal crews can not fire when fatigue is above 90% and Veteran & Elite above 120% . Is that correct?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Julio 23, 2008, 11:42:12 am
Vernon

Its dependant on the fatique level. the higher the fatigue the longer the recovery period

At greater than 100% (I thought, although it might be 90% as in the rules) normal crews can't reload (so at 160% fatique it will take 3 turns (-20% per turn) to be able to fire again, assuming they don't do anything else fatiguing in the meantime)


Cyjan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Julio 23, 2008, 12:11:40 pm
Green and normal crews can shoot as far as 100% of fatigue (100% too).

Veteran and elite crews up to 120% (120% too).

I am not 100% sure, but i think that also if a ship is in NV or achored, as it has a -10% fatigue bonus for shooting, it is possible for her to shoot with 110% level in the first case and 130% in the second  ;) But, i say, it is an exception.

Regards
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 23, 2008, 01:02:50 pm
At no sail or anchored a ship gets a -10 fatigue bonus for shooting but that bonus doesn't affect maximum fatigue limit.

Fatigue reduces shooting damage representing decreased reload speed, accuracy and increased disorder, smoke and so on.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 23, 2008, 05:32:35 pm
Ok, I think there has been misunderstanding when people have said you can't shoot above 100% w. NorCrew because I thought I fired guns at 130-180 fatigue levels.

Is it that the guns won't fire or
the guns will fire but the shots are not effective


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 23, 2008, 06:30:44 pm
Green and normal crew can shot 0-100% fatigue, veteran and elite 0-120%. Out of that range you can not shot. You can order shooting but no damage will be caused, a message saying your crew is loading will appear in turn report.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 23, 2008, 08:50:55 pm
...and not just loading but exhausted too ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 23, 2008, 10:32:57 pm
Sorry to be so slow, I've seen the message many times; my men like fighting tired ;-)

You are saying it will keep showing that message until the fatigue gets below 100-120 or
that it could fire a broadside, but not hit anything?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Julio 23, 2008, 10:39:38 pm
It will keeping showing that message.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 23, 2008, 10:39:49 pm
yep. The message appears and says everyone that your crew is exhausted and cannot fire, and will not, and have not and shall rest hehehehehe
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 25, 2008, 05:56:31 pm
I understand what you are saying, but the program seems to be acting differently.
Last turn Goliath had 130% fatigue, which you say means she will not fire a broadside.
I tried anyhow, her fatigue is now 140% and she did fire (see below)

The HMS Goliath shoots her batteries of starboard against the hull of Le Conquerant by port
with ammunition of grapeshot at 37 m causing a damage of 68 in her hull.
3 dead and 5 wounded men
damage to the rig (0):
0 dead and 0 wounded men


The damage from grape at 37 meters was small. So it seems you can fire above 120% but the penalty is large, yes?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 27, 2008, 06:01:49 am
Question on carronades: rules 1.2, pg 14

there are 3 figures on carronade effectiveness at 300, 225, 150 meters.
What is the shot, round or grape?

bar shot
7 lengths of distance effectiveness is 33% pg. 10
what are the lengths, what is it in meters?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Julio 27, 2008, 10:16:49 am
a) It is the same. There are three zones of efectiveness in degree

b) A lenght = 75m. For example, look how 150, 225 and 300 are three steps of 75m.  ;) and in general so for the rest of the main figures of the game
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 31, 2008, 03:54:57 am
Does anyone know what the time refers to on the Info page?
After the table on the fleets is text:
   
Turn 79
(6 h 35 m)
Back

I assume this is a reference to time. But it doesn't count up or down. What does it refer to?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Julio 31, 2008, 11:05:00 am
Its the duration of the game allowing five minutes per turn, it goes up five minutes every turn.

so
Citar
Turn 79
(6 h 35 m)

is 6 hours (72 turns at 12 per hour) plus 35 minutes (7 turns at 5 minutes) = 79 turns.

Might be useful for it to have a absolute tine as well (or even instead of)

Cyjan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 31, 2008, 12:52:25 pm
What do you mean with absolute time my friend? The system calculates time as you said and it starts from zero so I don't get the idea of absolute time you mention ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Julio 31, 2008, 03:01:43 pm
The system show game time expired (the amount of time the game has been running) but not the absolute time, the time of day in the game.

So a game might start at game time 15:00PM, (0h 0m), so when it run for 36 turns it would be (3h 0m), and 18:00PM. Gives us a clue as to when it will go dark.

Cyjan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 31, 2008, 03:39:07 pm
I thought I had figured it out on my own before I read your post, but I was sliding down the wrong backstay.

For those of us who aren't math majors or computer gee... geniuses, maybe a note would be helpful-

Turn 79
Game Time: Day 1, 18:00 hours
BACK


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 31, 2008, 05:27:48 pm
aaah, no it is not that it means Day 1, 18:00. Forget that. It just means that, in this battle, since its start, have passed "x" hours and "y" minutes.

We couldn't start the battle at 00:00, nor would be able to carry it for longer than 24 hours to reach a supposed day 2... maybe when we have that strategic, big scale game....... but not for now my friend. So forget the maths you don't need. Just read what it states, and that's all you need my friend
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Julio 31, 2008, 07:47:39 pm
Ok, but for discussion sake
 
I know someday we will have a formula that will adjust shadows on the deck according to the year, season, and hour, but until then why not have the clock remind us what time of day it is in the battle so we know how long we have till it starts to get dark (and when the grog is served out)?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Julio 31, 2008, 07:49:15 pm
Ah ok, then you just think that, fater turn 60, it gets darker as visibility decreases ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 01, 2008, 02:38:01 pm
angle of fire?

Does anyone know how the angle of fire from a ship is figured?
1. Is it exactly 90 degrees or is it slightly greater?
2. Does it project out from the foremast & the mizzen or from the bow & stern?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 01, 2008, 11:23:36 pm
It is a 10 degree arc I believe.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 02, 2008, 10:33:26 pm
Is there a computer problem today other than being slow?

In game 95/ Turn 27, I've got a ship, hms alexander,
pointed directly at the enemy, le vanguard,
at only 260 meters, Targets is on, but I can't get a red square no matter what I try.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 03, 2008, 08:33:11 am
The Vanguard is a captured ship. As such no ship may fire at her.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 03, 2008, 08:00:11 pm
Captured ship-

Thank you, simple answer.

1. How does one know that if you don't see it happen? I wasted time getting into position to fire on that ship.

2. Why, that rule? I believe ships were taken and retaken often, which meant a fight.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 03, 2008, 08:09:48 pm
The reason that you cannot fire on a friendly ship, that was captured by the enemy, is that only a few enemy crew are on board. You would be killing more of your own crew if you fired cannon at them.

This does bring up a different idea though. Right now if you want to recapture a ship you must ram it first. However, if you got close enough you could use small arms to try and kill the enemy crew without overly endangering friendly crew.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: CyJan en Agosto 03, 2008, 09:27:28 pm
You need to turn Flags on on the map, then you can see who owns which ship and confusion is impossible

Cyjan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Agosto 04, 2008, 12:31:51 am
Captured ships' names appear in gray fonts.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 04, 2008, 09:58:14 am
Can a notice be placed by your ship is someone else has entered a move for you?

I have missed several turns of game 100 now because the game turn timer was always at finished with English ships not yet moved. I had no idea that my ship was being moved because someone was moving it as soon as the game turn advanced. Since I have several other games going on I was not entering the battle screen to see that ships had moved. I find this quite rude behavior since I was on every day, but never had a warning that I needed to retake control of my ship.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Agosto 04, 2008, 10:15:27 am
Hi Zarby  :)

I was moving the Monarca  :P at Trafalgar... It always appears with 'move' option after the end of the turn so that means that his original captain hasn't give it orders... I thought he could be on holidays  ;)

By the way, always his original captain can enter in their ships and give them their orders which remain over anyone  ;) When a turn finished with the ship with orders from his original captain, in the next one, 'move' optinon were not yet available... unless the captain was out again.

So, don't worry, enter in game #100 give your orders to Monarca and wait a cuple of turns for it disapears 'move' option. You always has the control of your ship because your order will be the one that prevail, but y ou have to give it before the turn runs!

Excusme for moving your ship, but be quiet  ;) because i has taken care of her as it was mine... "we" have got some good points smashing enemy hulks! and now, giving close support to Wishgamer' Santa Ana  ;)

Best regards!


(May be the different hour could be a reason to 'move' optinon was shown after the turn runs  ::) )
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 05, 2008, 08:35:35 am
I understand that the move showed up on the info screen, but I did not have this problem in my other 3 games. You could have let the ship stand without orders for a few hours. By repeatedly moving my ship as soon as the turn advanced I was unaware I was missing turns. I was looking for a no message next to my ship and not seeing it I was logging out. On a regular auction game like this players need to show more restraint.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Agosto 09, 2008, 01:27:25 pm
Well, there are some other... for example, if you retake command of a previously lost ship, if it has some morale, you recover it with 120% fatigue, and if it has no morale o less than zero you recover it with 200% (if I don't remember this wrong)

Also, recently added feature: if a ship has morale zero and there is an enemy at boarding distance (or closer) that ship can't be recovered by the original fleet.

Should think of some more there might be...
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Agosto 09, 2008, 04:30:34 pm
Morale applies to surrender rolls.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 22, 2008, 04:09:20 pm
GUNNERY

IF you fire your guns and forget to reload,
are the guns empty so they won't fire the next time you try or
does it automatically default to roundshot?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Agosto 22, 2008, 06:35:09 pm
At first is always round shot by default.

But if you change your reload; this type of ammo (what you reload ) will be reload all the turns up to you change it again.

It is imposible not to reload ammo, always there is a type of ammo selected.

* The problem is other, that you only can change your ammo firing them to a target (you can't shot to the fishes)

* If you want reload double shot, you have to have round shot loaded before.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Agosto 22, 2008, 10:32:45 pm

* The problem is other, that you only can change your ammo firing them to a target (you can't shot to the fishes)

In my opinion, it would be nice to fire the guns into the air in order to reload other type of ammo. Of course, increasing fatigue.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Agosto 23, 2008, 04:09:05 pm
I agree. More than once I have been stuck with grapeshot in one broadside. I know it was possible to fire off or draw a load and re-load with another shot. I am sure Munrox will fix this in time and I think he mentioned knowing it was a problem.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 25, 2008, 04:54:29 pm
Question about prizes-

Does the prize have to stay within 500m. of the ship it struck to or
any ship of the same country?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Agosto 25, 2008, 06:39:45 pm
Hello Vernon, here we are again ;)

Let's see, let me say I don't get the point for the fatigue to be different being a percentage (with % behind) or an absolute valor. In both cases moves in between 0 and 200, and in both cases either way you write it the effect is the same. I'm sorry but here I'm lost. Perhaps Munrox, who knows much better the insides of Velmad (because of OBVIOUS reasons) might find what you mean and explain it better.

And about your 2nd question it can be any of your original ships. It is not needed to be the one that struck her. In fact, if for any reason you lose that ship, the prize is yet yours ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Agosto 25, 2008, 07:33:11 pm
Fatigue is a number from 0 to 20. Some player suggested to print it as % to make easy to remember that for example you can not fire or board with more than 100%, that is the only reason.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Agosto 26, 2008, 08:14:47 am
Obviously yes Vernon. I'm aware it is not the same an absolute and a relative one. I tried to mean that it was no difference for the game saying fatigue was 10 or 10%, because there is nothing to apply that percentage other than an abstract idea of how tired the crewmen are.

Man am I bad in English and I hope you can forgive the continuous misunderstandings hehehe. Also, I'm not sure if, with that EXACTLY explanation, I'm detecting something like you think I'm "arguing against you" or something, but anything like that is wrong and only possible to blame it to my bad Language use. I'm really pleased that other players like this game as much as I do, and try to understand it as EXACTLY as possible like I do. More yet if it is to help other players to understand it.

So be certain that, every answer I give you, I try to do it in the most helping way I can and in the most friendly way I can. So if there is anything off the track, accept my most sincere apologies and remember it is not my intention to reproach or whatever.

So being said this: THANKS SO VERY MUCH Vernon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Agosto 26, 2008, 03:29:57 pm
Fatigue and how tried your crew is, is like the relationship between the proof of a bottle alcohol and the percentage of alcohol it contains.  ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Agosto 26, 2008, 11:45:05 pm
Munrox,

When I tried to do my move today, I got a "Cheat attempt detected" message. I was not doing anything different than I have done many times before, so...have I been doing something wrong or has somebody been using my login?

wulfe
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Agosto 27, 2008, 12:14:28 am
Don't worry about that message. I got it also, and many other before us. Something went wrong with the server, and this messages are used by Munrox for debugging.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Agosto 27, 2008, 12:16:48 am
Ok, but I can't make my move now!!!!
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Agosto 27, 2008, 12:18:50 am
Ok, but I can't make my move now!!!!

Yes. Everybody is waiting for the fixing of the problem.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Agosto 27, 2008, 12:57:10 am
It is working now.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Agosto 27, 2008, 04:55:52 am
Thank you.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 27, 2008, 07:08:02 pm
Question- penalty each broadside depending on skill level
location- Rules 1.2 / pg. 09 / crew skills

Beginner: 6% of penalty to the firing by each 10% of fatigue.
Normal: 5%
Veteran: 4% etc.

I do not recall seeing where these penalties are added.
Is this penalty hidden, used to calculate damage effect?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Agosto 27, 2008, 07:14:05 pm
Yes my friend, the penalty is something we suffer but don't see because it is used within the formula that results with the damage our shots make ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Agosto 27, 2008, 07:24:41 pm
At a later time I was thinking of writing a "concept piece" for the forum about issues like this.
It is not that I am just a new member, I approach software always as a non-industry, non-programer user. I have some concerns about usability and also the learning curve for Velmad. However I dont know what the ultimate goal is for M. and the game.
Is it mainly for hobby-fun-meet people or is there a secondary or maybe the primary goal of hoping the game will become a big success and he can either sell it to a large company or grow it into a company himself?

A secondary goal of growing into a small games company would be nice.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Agosto 27, 2008, 08:46:27 pm
Good to understand where you would like things to go in the long run.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 01, 2008, 05:03:44 pm
FORUM FORMAT

Many of the forums I belong to automatically list the newest messages first and if you want to read older messages you go back through the pages.

Actually Velmad is the only forum I can think of that list the old messages first so that you have to constantly click the highest page number to get to the new posts.

1. Is this a default choice that was never changed or is there a special reason to have it this way?

2. I have never seen the poll feature used. Do people not know it is there? Could we do a poll on the message order?



Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 01, 2008, 07:50:56 pm
You can click on the small "new" icon and that leads you to the first unread message so you don't have to click on page numbers.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Septiembre 02, 2008, 01:16:12 pm
Fog of War

I understand that the flag system is imperfect in part to maintain some of the "fog of war" that would be present in a real battle. Are there any plans to increase the realism any more? It seems very unrealistic to me for example to know the exact damage points scored, number and type of gun dismounted, men killed, etc for both fleets every turn. It might be more realistic to just give the general assessment (leve, critico, etc) with only specific damage that is readily visible such as if the main mast has been lost.

Having said that, I am not sure if I would like the game more that way or not even if it would be more "realistic". It might add a bit to the suspense though!
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Septiembre 10, 2008, 05:32:59 am
Munrox,

I have completed 3 games, finistere and the Med. twice. I got the points for the first Med game, but didn't receive any for Finistere (probably shouldn't, got beat bad and lost my ships) or the 2nd Med game (did well in in, all ships survived and even captured 1 vessell). Could you check on it? Also, I have had a LOT of trouble connecting Tuesday evening, Eastern U.S. time.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 10, 2008, 08:06:32 am
Hi Aaron, I don't know which are the plans, but I doubt they would hidden the damage points scored because it would make almost impossible to follow games and find some bugs ???

Hello wulfe, the problem is that Finisterre was not a ranking game, so nobody did receive points for it, and trust me I'd have loved it hehehehe. In regards of the second game you mention, I can't speak being certain, but I'm afraid it will be the same. Has the game already disappeared off your screen?

Usually, the only games that give you points are the learning ones, the individual tourney ones and the games where ships are assigned through an auction. Like it is being done now with Los Santos (Game 122)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Septiembre 10, 2008, 05:29:09 pm
Ok, that explains it. Thanks
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 12, 2008, 03:34:40 pm
the Inquirer: my new area of questions will be matches, contests, tournements

<<the only games that give you points are the learning ones, the individual tourney ones and the games where ships are assigned through an auction.>>

1. how many points can you have before you may not enter a learning battle?

2. what is an individual tourney?

3. is there any other place auction battles are announced besides current games?

4. is there any place where ranking is explained in english?

5. is there any place where bidding is explained in english?

6. In large battles should the english only speakers take the british side?

7. pt.2 if an english only speaker took the french side would understanding the pre-game discussion be difficult?

8. how is the difference in ships and guns made equal in Santos?

9. is there any place where Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle is explained in english
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 12, 2008, 04:06:28 pm
1. Usually 1000 points, but each side's admiral can have no points limit. He should teach Velmad to new players so admiral is a veteran player with more than 1000 points.

2. We are playing a single player world (  ;D ) velmad championship (currently semi-finals) but we are on pause because of summer vacations. Well, only spanish world part  :-\ as we started it before non spanish speakers arrived.

3. I use to open a thread in international forum and spanish forum. I forget open Santos thread!  :-[ sorry.

4. wishgamer?  ::) ...  ;D

5. see number 4.  :D

6. english speakers can take any side they like, there is no rules about it. Right now we have few active english speakers players...  :-\ (I hope it will change soon) ... so it could be a good idea to be in the same side. When we have more international players I hope we can open games with english as official language for discussion.

7. I think Aaron and Cyan (maybe someone more?) have played with spanish speaker players in auction games. Some spanish players know basic english (as me :D ). Some players translate into english the main ideas of pre-game discussion, but Aaron or Cyan should answer this question.

8. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

9. isn't it a beer?  ;D

Edited: I think Zarby also played in auction games.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 12, 2008, 05:12:35 pm
Wow, you are fast!

<<Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle>>
9. yes, good name for a beer, a dog, or an old British sports car

10. more questions to follow
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Septiembre 12, 2008, 08:16:53 pm
I have played in large games (like Trafalgar) with the Spanish speakers. It can be a bit more work, but with the help of Google mistranslator and, more importantly, that of very kind multi-lingual players like Wishgamer and Munrox it can be done. Once battle is joined everyone can (mis)read the same flags regardless of mother tongue! ;D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 12, 2008, 09:26:43 pm
Hello guys. I'm sorry I'm this late but I've had a horrible firewall afternoon LOL

In regards of the points Munrox didn't answer:

4. There is not yet. It is planned to be but as I did state in the updates thread this morning (I think it was this morning) I have lost (thanks Lord it was only temporary) a few files with some good info and I was too concerned with them to think on translating. I'm sorry guys. I just keep trying.

5. Bidding? Which bidding do you speak about? Tourney bids about which side each squadron plays, or autcion games' bidding?

And just to confirm it: Zarby has played with us the spaniards in some games: Actually I can remember Trafalgar (yet with his Monarca) and that Finisterre where combined fleet crushed the Royal with the pretty important participation of Zarby.

I might be losing some games, but I'm certain of those two. And about what Vernon asks... well, trust me if I say I've tried as much as possible to translate the main plans in these battles where I'm aware there's an INT (no Spanish speaking) player. Hope you all can understand I just can't try to translate everything being said and I just do it with main messages. There are some others who have tried too to translate in both languages, but in this regards, we can't do much more. I know it might not be perfect, but I hope it can be, at least, of some help :-\

Also, whenever there's trouble with online translators, I've received some private messages asking me for some statements and always have tried to answer them as fast as possible.

This is the status of things in regards of Spanish/English matters. It might not be worth an A grade, but hope at least we can reach a B? ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Septiembre 13, 2008, 02:11:27 am
This is the status of things in regards of Spanish/English matters. It might not be worth an A grade, but hope at least we can reach a B? ;)

Don't sell yourself short. You get an A in my book anyway! Of course that grade could change depending on the actions of a certain Hispano-Dutch fleet. ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 13, 2008, 09:06:13 am
Ok, that I think I shall be ready to grab an F out of this hehehehehe. Thanks so much my friend ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 13, 2008, 05:36:46 pm
Bidding on ships
how do you know if your bid remains the highest one or
whether someone else has bid more?


<<I've had a horrible firewall afternoon>>
a firewall is a device to protect a computer from hackers or the metal between the inside of the car and the engine.
Could you mean firestorm : )
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Septiembre 13, 2008, 08:44:55 pm
I am sure Munrox or Wish will correct me if I am wrong, but when I have bid on a ship it shows up under my currwent games when I log in. When I am outbid that ship disappears, so if I log in and no longer se it I know I have been outbid. I have been outbid a few times and I have not received an email or other notification so I think it is left up to you to monitor things and make sure you have a command in the coming game.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 13, 2008, 10:52:48 pm
Yes, you have to monitor it yourself.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 14, 2008, 10:46:33 pm
Exactly that Aaron!!

And no Vernon, when I said firewall I was trying to mean firewall. That is, I did have that day a horrible experience with an update on my firewall leaving me off the world... the virtual world I mean ;) Although I might have been wrong and sure your help/explanation would have been (and is) greatly appreciated.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Septiembre 15, 2008, 05:14:15 am
I think there maybe a problem with the new delayed sail change and collisions. You need to raise the sails the turn before you are going to break free, but that turn you are still in contact and therefore the system says you collided again and takes your sails back down.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 15, 2008, 05:50:31 am
Oh, you said Firewall, I thought you said Firewall...


More questions on bidding:

a) is the bidding for ships in the Tourneys done in a simple manner or do players “manoeuver” waiting till the last minute to make a large bid?

b) do you have to keep bidding on the same ships,
or if you are outbid on one of your ships, can you switch to a different ship and make bids on that one?


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 15, 2008, 09:08:21 am
I think there maybe a problem with the new delayed sail change and collisions. You need to raise the sails the turn before you are going to break free, but that turn you are still in contact and therefore the system says you collided again and takes your sails back down.

Yes Zarby, I think I've suffered that very same thing. Good sight!

a) is the bidding for ships in the Tourneys done in a simple manner or do players “manoeuver” waiting till the last minute to make a large bid?

b) do you have to keep bidding on the same ships,
or if you are outbid on one of your ships, can you switch to a different ship and make bids on that one?

a. In tourneys you don't bid for ships. You've got me lost. Could you be a little more specific on this one? Anyway, about bidding becoming something like ebay, it has been somehow discussed and I think Munrox could explain it better than me ;)

b. Not at all. In fact, lets say you bid for three french ships and you lose them all. Then you can change and bid for the Royal Navy ships up to the limit stated to the bottom of the auction's page.

Hope this helps ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 15, 2008, 02:41:54 pm
if your lost, we're really in trouble : )
 
Maybe we should list all the different types of battles and what they mean, what are there qualities: bid for side, bid for ships,  keep points, ranking; I may be using the words incorrectly.

private match=
Tourney=
new members battle=
ranking battle=
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 15, 2008, 03:11:20 pm
private game = No bid, no ranking, just a friendly game.

Tourney = No bid, no ranking, a cup championship, similiar to some tenis championship beating opponents to pass to next round. Usually 1 vs 1 rounds, sometimes 1 vs 1 vs 1 rounds.

new members battle = players less or equal to 1000 points, admiral with no points limit (they teach Velmad to newcomers)

ranking game = Bid for ships, earn ranking points when game finishes.

teams game = bid for side, rules in teams forum.

Grand Strategic game (working on it) = players take side on countries and play big campaings. Move fleets around the world or a part of the world, blockade ports, hunt merchants, ... Ships, men, survive from battle to battle, men gain experience, players repair ships at port, build new ships, ...

I think these are all the different types, but maybe I forgot someone.  ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Septiembre 15, 2008, 04:36:06 pm
Grand Strategic game (working on it) = players take side on countries and play big campaings. Move fleets around the world or a part of the world, blockade ports, hunt merchants, ... Ships, men, survive from battle to battle, men gain experience, players repair ships at port, build new ships, ...

Wooow!! Just two questions Munrox (for the moment). Could different players take side on the same country? and are combats between fleets carried out as now, let's say ship to ship, or will be a new system?

Thanks.

PD: Do you really want information about the Heisenberg principle?  ;D It is much as Finisterre. You know that they are there, but you don't know reallywhere they are... ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 15, 2008, 05:39:15 pm
Thanks M. More complicated than I thought.

1. are tourney games alway 1 player against another?

2. ranking points are only earned in the New Members games and Ranking games

* the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that you can know if a beer has more flavor or is less filling, but you can't know both at once.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Septiembre 15, 2008, 06:38:46 pm

* the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that you can know if a beer has more flavor or is less filling, but you can't know both at once.

Some people believe that the "Heisenberg uncertainty principle" states the following: When Heisenberg had time to make love, he had not energy, and inversely, when he had energy he hadn't time!  ;D ;D He cannot had energy and time at the same time.  ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 15, 2008, 11:06:13 pm
Thanks M. More complicated than I thought.

1. are tourney games alway 1 player against another?

2. ranking points are only earned in the New Members games and Ranking games

Hello Vernon, let's try it hehehe.

1. Yes actually, with exception made for the new squadrons/teams tourney... and this will not earn ranking points for individuals also

2. Those and the tourney games too (if I'm not wrong)... as said before leaving off the track the teams tourney we are trying to start ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 15, 2008, 11:38:50 pm
1. what are new squadrons/team tourney, is that what we just started?
If so there are Individual Tourneys and Team Tourneys. It would be easier to keep track of if we use the same term, yes.

2. Ranking points are given for new member, ranking, individual tourney, team tourney games?
3. so you start in new member games and move up to ranking games.



Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle-
unfortunately Mrs. Heisenberg had both time and energy,
and she exploded!
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 15, 2008, 11:47:34 pm
1. Yes that is. Individual tourneys are only one til now and we keep waiting on a next round as Munrox said somewhere no much time ago hehehee

2. Nope team tourney games don't give us ranking points to individuals. They will be totally apart. There will be a ranking, but not in an individual basis as we have now. Those points we will earn will not be useful to be wasted on auctions

3. Something like that, yes. The only exceptions are games like the actually finishing Trafalgar where we have allowed to enter some newcomers with no points at all, because it was somehow like a celebration ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 16, 2008, 12:19:31 am
The only games that give ranking points are ranking games (public auction) and learning games (newcomers need points to bid in ranking games)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 16, 2008, 05:31:42 pm
SANTOS

Can someone tell me where the discussion is for the british side of Santos 1782
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 16, 2008, 05:36:05 pm
You have to have access to the English subforum. There you will find it
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 16, 2008, 07:34:10 pm
Well Vernon, the main amount of captains there are Spanish or at least Spanish speakers. Hope you don't think that the French fleet will be speaking french ::)... do you? :D

Actually, there are only a number of captains letting all know which are their ships, and a pair of comments regarding the strategies to follow.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 20, 2008, 05:18:16 pm
BROWSER GLITCH

Some weeks ago I mentioned a browser glitch that was met with some skepticism I believe. It was intermittent, but I think I have it tracked down.

I use Firefox on a Mac, with multiple windows open on Tabs, one for each ship, so I can switch back &forth between ships. There is a right click option called Reload All Tabs that I usually don't use, but sometimes hit by accident when I open a new Tab.

For some reason when FireFox refreshs multiple window Tabs at the same time, settings can get jumbled, options like the Target Designater can be turned off, sail and rudder settings can change.

I think that is what happened at the beginning of Mediteranneo, when my sail setting was changed and I didn't notice causing a major LoB crash, so I would not recommend using Reload All Tabs with Firefox when managing ships until more testing has been done.





Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 20, 2008, 06:09:01 pm
It could be the reason. I think we should write it in some post, maybe a FAQ so new players can be aware of it if the use the same browser and SO.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 29, 2008, 02:18:14 am
Puede usted respuesta estos cuestiones?



QUÉ ES EL patrón duración de tiempo por un buque subasta durar?

Insignia= ?

Jefe division= ?

bien= well

leve= slight damage

danado= damage

muy danado= severely damage

mach= ?

critico= ?


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 29, 2008, 08:20:05 am
Hi Vernon, thanks so much for keeping trying and improving your Spanish. But remember we can speak English here with no trouble... well I do it with real trouble considering my poor English, but you don't LOL

Let's try it:

1. Auctions use to last for 7 days if I'm not wrong. Anyway, remember the time is shown in it. Also, there is a difference in between the times shown in the auction's screen and the one shown in your main list of ships' screen. The reason is that one shows you the time left for the auction to end, and the other (obviously the bigger one) shows the time left to the end of the first turn in that game.

Insignia= Flagship

Jefe division= Vice-Admiral ??? Commodore ??? The man who leads an entire division, being the Admiral the one leading the entire fleet in that scenario

bien= well

leve= slight damage

dañado= damaged

muy dañado= severely damaged

machacado= something like crushed

critico= critical

Hope this helps. If these last words referring to the status of our ships' hull were looking for figures, I could try to find the values too ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 30, 2008, 01:45:07 am
Many thanks for information on the Popup window.

<<thanks so much for keeping trying and improving your Spanish.>>

No es ningún problema hombre.
Tengo una hermosa joven profesor para enseñar a mí español.
Su nombre es Google Srta.


New question for anyone:
<<El Fortitude remains hooked to Argo increasing her crew fatigue in 4[0] points.>>

I haven't seen that wording before. Is it new?
Is there a translation problem? A ship gets fatigue points for remaining hooked???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 30, 2008, 06:16:21 am
Yep, when you are grappled to another ship and try to go away, you get those 4 points and receive no damage. The problem was that this was not working properly yet the last time I did hear about it. But sure Munrox can be more helpful than me once again.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 30, 2008, 05:43:38 pm
BRITISH ACCUSED OF GRAPPLING OTHER CREWS, THEN LEAVING

I am insulted Sir, my crews do no grappling. They know nothing about grappling. They have not been taught to grapple, our ships have not been issued grappling hooks.
My Embassy demands an immeadiate appology, as well as the removal of the penalties or there will be grave consequences.


[Since I don't know how to grapple, the feature really is not working correctly.]
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Septiembre 30, 2008, 07:48:10 pm
Hello Vernon, hehehehe I might be wrong but I think "to graple" was the verb used when a ship launch ropes to the other ship so they start the boardings ??? If it was not, then I'm sorry for any inconvenience the term might have caused :-\ I seem to remember this from some boardgames like wooden ships & iron men or flying colors, but again I might be wrong.

In regards of the second problem you report, the reason is that, if I'm not wrong, you said you use to have one screen open for each one of your ships. I think this might be the cause of your trouble. In fact, when I'm last moving and have to click on the BIG green arrow to end a turn, I can chose rudder and sail for the next turn BUT the finish button isn't red but grayed too. I have to exit and then a comeback is in order. But those ships should appear as "Casi". Again I think the problem should be the one screen per ship thing ???

Sure Munrox could explain it better with a deeper knowledge of the problem. I just keep trying ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 30, 2008, 11:47:56 pm
Ah, Munrox knows the deep magic.
I will try it with one window and see how it goes.

I don't know how the rest of you can manage with only one window.
When shiips are close together I move and look where the ship is going, then I go to another ship in a different window and see where that is going, then I come back to the 1st window and change the rudder, then I back to the 2nd window and change the rudder, then I go to the 1st window and change the speed. Then I lie down for siesta.
When everything is perfect, I play the turn and find that my ships have collided  ;) 

As for the English, you used the correct word. I just didn't do any grappling because I don't know how.
That is why I don't know why I recieved a penalty. Where were the Congreve rockets red and blue that tells when you are grappling. How does one know?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 01, 2008, 06:30:30 am
Hahahaha, yes. At times I've tried that two windows thing. But opening just to make one move and with that result: ¡crash! :D :D

In regards of grappling, as I said, it wasn't working properly and as far as I know you need to do nothing and actually don't know how to be certain if you're or not grappled to other ship.

The problem is that it seems Munrox has been caught by some kind of flu that have grappled him ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 01, 2008, 05:32:18 pm
Well it's curious weeks ago I was talking about browser problems and nobody said anything, but I'll change the subject because I know that isn't the problem now. It doesn't work with 1 window. The Command screen now says Finished on the last column, but Casi for all my ships.

1. This happened several turns ago, but I'll ask anyhow; my flagship was taken. Could that be the problem?

2. Is there some extra point loss for the flagship?

3. In real battles, if the flagship is sinking, the Admiral will transfer to another ship.
Is there a way to do that in Velmad, because I can no longer send signals to the fleet.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 01, 2008, 07:55:27 pm
Have you tried to delete cookies and temporal files in your browser?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Octubre 02, 2008, 04:26:50 am
Well it's curious weeks ago I was talking about browser problems and nobody said anything, but I'll change the subject because I know that isn't the problem now. It doesn't work with 1 window. The Command screen now says Finished on the last column, but Casi for all my ships.

1. This happened several turns ago, but I'll ask anyhow; my flagship was taken. Could that be the problem?

2. Is there some extra point loss for the flagship?

3. In real battles, if the flagship is sinking, the Admiral will transfer to another ship.
Is there a way to do that in Velmad, because I can no longer send signals to the fleet.


Finished means that the 23 hour count down has finished. Not that you have moved your ships or that the game has ended.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 02, 2008, 08:24:00 am
WON'T TAKE ORDERS:

No, I haven't deleted aaaa, well yes, I did re-install the browser a day or two ago.

What does that have to do with Velmad not accepting orders if I have logged in properly, like I logged into this forum and am using it?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 02, 2008, 07:52:53 pm
can you give me the link for the spanish version of the Rules
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 02, 2008, 08:23:31 pm
http://velmad.spacegame.es/reglamento_velmad.pdf

Are you still having problems with game 120? Rest of your games are working?

There is an argentinian player with a problem like yours. At his work he could play normal, but at home suddenly he cant give orders. I think is browser related, maybe with temporal files, but you installed your browser again so it shouldn't be the problem.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 02, 2008, 11:04:10 pm
I hope I didn't say #120, I think it was #123.

It just locked up on my side and on telescopes side it said game ended.
It looks like you cleared it today, because its not on my Ships commanded screen any more.

battle #124 we decided to stop and has been idle several days.
If you would like to clear it.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 02, 2008, 11:15:39 pm
ohhh, that is the reason! That game finished so you couldn't issue orders, so button became gray. I think the game was one turn without shots after turn 60, actually turn 64.

You told me game 120 and I was becoming mad  ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 03, 2008, 05:06:02 pm
I don't know where to look for the "Game Over" message?

Would it be difficult to put a "Game Over" message in the clock column of the Ships at your Command page?
Aaron and I were wondering for 2 days what was going on.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 03, 2008, 05:14:41 pm
It reads "Game Finished" in the turn report. I think I should change it for game over.

Anyway I will see how to put it where you said.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Octubre 03, 2008, 05:27:49 pm
Munrox, Game 128 is over. You can clear it now. Thanks, wulfe
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 03, 2008, 07:40:00 pm
And going to open battles too. There you can see a finished game easily ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Octubre 03, 2008, 10:29:14 pm
Wishgamer, I sent a message to Munrox to ask him to start a Dogger Bank game for Zarby (#191, Dutch) and wulfe (#180, English). I got a delivery failed permanantly message. Would you check on it?
Thanks
wulfe
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 03, 2008, 10:34:38 pm
The game is ready Wulfe.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 04, 2008, 12:44:22 am
--The Berwick gets to evacuate her entangled mast.--

1. Does that mean the mast & rigging is sent into the water?

2. What does that mean for maneouvering and speed?

3. can a temporary mast be set up form extra spars?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 04, 2008, 01:49:19 am
1. Yes.

2. When a ship has an entangled mast she sails at 90% of her current speed. She always turn to that side. If she shots that broadside she has a % of getting in fire. If someone shots her in that broadside has a % to get her in fire.

When the mast is evacuated all that penalizations are removed.

3. No.


As always, this is how the game works now but we can improve it.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Octubre 04, 2008, 03:00:42 pm
thank you Munrox. Did you get my e-mail or get the message from the board?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 04, 2008, 03:24:42 pm
I read it here. Maybe my email server was down  :-\
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Octubre 04, 2008, 03:49:17 pm
No, I've tried e-mailing you before and get a "delivery failed permanantly" message.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 05, 2008, 11:01:02 am
Signal flag

W. I'm thinking there needs to be an turn "in succession" (one after each other ) flag.
I think  you mean that if you put "line"  in the messages it means that, but a player can read that instruction thinking it is talking to the line, "everyone turn now".

That has just happened in Med. A , several ships turned out of 15.
There were no immeadiate collisions, though you know sometimes they can happen the turn after.
If there was an "in sucessesion" flag, it would eliminate any confusion. #26
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 05, 2008, 11:13:56 am
Hello Vernon. There shouldn't be that problem because, as you said, saying inline should be understood as veering in succession. If you want a simultaenous veer, you should be using the correspondent flag that, if my head serves me well now, is number 18.

And then the joy of confussions giving us a ration of realism. Hope it has sense ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Octubre 05, 2008, 02:56:56 pm
He, he... Vernon i think Wish actually refers to flag number 9 (Which means:Everyone, simutaneously)...  ;D ;)

As it had said Wish, if it isn't said the contrary (ie, using flag #9), always it is understood "in sucession". By the way in signal's book this point is explained... and the actual problem it isn't a missing flag, but people don't spend time reading it and asking any doubt.  :-[

Regards
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 05, 2008, 04:05:43 pm
oops!
I read the signal book, I just don't re-read it.

I think I'll change the subject.
Sometimes I can get the Google to translate a complete forum page which is very nice instead of pasting in a single message. Other times it goes to login and I can't load any pages.

I haven't figured out why it does that sometimes and not others?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 06, 2008, 11:25:25 am
He, he... Vernon i think Wish actually refers to flag number 9 (Which means:Everyone, simutaneously)...  ;D ;)

hahahah, well I think I was trying to insist so much on the flag that I did put it doubled (18 instead of 9) :D :D :D

In regards of Vernon's last comment... I just don't have a clue on that ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Octubre 06, 2008, 12:59:32 pm


I think I'll change the subject.
Sometimes I can get the Google to translate a complete forum page which is very nice instead of pasting in a single message. Other times it goes to login and I can't load any pages.

I haven't figured out why it does that sometimes and not others?

I have experienced that also. It seems to me that all of the "open" boards work fine. I only have the password problem when I attempt to translate a board you need special permission to access like the Flota Inglese, Flota Francesca, or individual team boards.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 06, 2008, 06:05:22 pm
SIGNALS AND OTHER BEGINNER SKILLS

I speak as an expert, having caused a crash in the LineofBattle, before the shooting started, in the first 2 out of the 3 ranking games I have been in. In the 3rd game I bid on ships in the back of the Rearguard where I could do less damage.

I may be specially talented at this, but I see other ships cause crashes in the LoB on both teams during simple maneuvers. Has it been discussed to require more practice of beginners? Here are a few possibilities.

1. I had several ships and made my points in only one Beginner Battle. Perhaps the entry into Ranking Games could be based on completing a certain number of beginner matches, rather than points.

2. Once in Ranking matches, the player could progress from Rearguard to Center to Vanguard, which would also reduce damage at the start of the battle while they learn to read signals and maneuver in crowded conditions.

3. Place a sign on the back of their ship: CAUTION, STUDENT DRIVER  8)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 06, 2008, 06:24:44 pm
Hello Vernon, I see where you're going and I could agree with you. But, after all, this adds some spice to the ranking games hehehe. We all have collided in the wrong place every now and then.

About what you're saying, I think it could be difficult to implement ??? but there is something actually stopped because of my work: signals learning battles. They will start anytime soon and I hope they will be a good addition for the newcomers to learn to use flags and in-game comms.

And yes, I have had a big L hanging on my ship's stern too hehehehe to show other captains I was am a newbie... a dangerous one too  :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 07, 2008, 01:08:42 am
Spice? I'm your man. My ship has more dents than a Neapolitan taxi cab.


Signal question:
16/ 3/ 12/ 19/ 7 

"rearguard head East line fast"
I understood it to mean this:
Rearguard turn East. Line add more sail.

If 19 only mean "in succession" why not change the word for the flag?
If it means "line" sometimes and "in succession" sometimes, doesn't that make room for confusion.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 07, 2008, 07:42:53 am
No Vernon, because sailing in line and veering in succession keeps the same sense... don't they? I'd say your signals asks the rearguard division to go to the East in line and fast. Just one statement and not two as you made with that "dot" in the middle ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Calsir en Octubre 07, 2008, 11:19:26 am
No Vernon, because sailing in line and veering in succession keeps the same sense... don't they? I'd say your signals asks the rearguard division to go to the East in line and fast. Just one statement and not two as you made with that "dot" in the middle ;)

It seems a bit unclear what we define as "line". Both the line abreast (row) and the line ahead (line of battle or column) are lines by all meanings. I am a newbie here, but I seem to recall that both formations were used during the age of sails and afterward. It is possible, of course, to morph a line abreast into a battle line and vice versa by turning simultaneously.

By the way, I found an interesting article on the NYT, dated May 1, 1898 :) that describes the formation of a contemporary US Navy fleet. I think that a login is needed: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9B06EEDE1139E433A25752C0A9639C94699ED7CF&oref=slogin

See you.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 07, 2008, 04:21:38 pm
I made my replie under the signal thread because I wanted to keep talking about them:
http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1730.0

To change the subject here, I haven't seen any comments about the new sail/speed delay.

I like it because I think it's realistic, but it is harder because you have to plan ahead more.
I also find it a little difficult going back & forth between a match that uses it and one that doesn't. I would prefer a default for new games would be the new system, so that as old matches are completed, the remaining games would use the same proceedure.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Octubre 07, 2008, 05:02:57 pm
Yes, coffee  ;)

There have been collisions in Mediterranean games now for two main reasons:

- This is the first scenario made in Velmad and the ships start very near one to another...  ::)

- Both games have started with the delay sail option... so it is very difficult avoid a collision unless you have enough space and could coordinate with your partners...

I also think that it is more realistic this option althought there have been problems to go out from a collision  :-\ we will see how the new measure works  ::) By the way, the sense given by Munrox was also to give more space between units in a line of battle, in order to make possible cutting the line... some very difficult to get at the moment  ::) Again, we will see it is improved this aspect.



* Thank you very much Calsir  ;) Excellent article. This is the idea... but first we have to learn to sailing with a ship!  :D , the division will arrive after!, and more after the entire Fleet!  :D . You will see when you command a ship of the line... and with more experience, entire divisions with parterns  8)

The ideal is to get some similar to that formations.

The line abreast is specially interesting to discover or chace the enemy. For example in scenarios as Finisterre with mist ( :o) is very usefull ... and as a formation in transition to another...

There are similar articles related with sailing ships because we cannot forget the wind and the wooden hulks above the waves  ;) With a diesel engine and steel hulk, the wind doesn't mind and it's easier an faster sailing in formation. Other aspect is the comunication which is very important to change and form tactict formations. With sailing warships we have only signal flags while in modern's the radio doesn't leave any margin to error  ;)

Regards
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 08, 2008, 07:14:35 pm
More thoughts on collisions:

While collisions happened, I believe they were infrequent considering the thousands of hours a man'o war spent at sea every year.

Someone (always someone else 8) should look up what standard spacing was in fleet maneuvers. Since there needed to be time to compose messages, hoist them, read them (sometimes decode) and then alter direction, it must have been a significant space. My guess would be many times the 2-3 ship lengths we often use.

Another problem we have (other than inexperience) is speed control. We have 4 different speed settings to represent the basic set of sail from heaved to, to full sail, which I would compare to the 4 gears in a stick shift car.

What we don't have is a second control that represents adjusting the sheets, yards and reefing the sails which allowed for smaller changes in speed that would correspond to the gas pedal in a car and would be so useful during group maneuvers. In Med. A, my ship began crowding the one in front of me by the second turn.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 08, 2008, 07:34:32 pm
You are right, the standard space between 2 ships in column was far larger than what we, players, use. It was a space that allow ships to tack in succession without risk of collide.

We could add more speed control as you said but I fear that could allow players to continue sailing cleaning the stern windows with his bowsprit, or maybe just sending a boy to steal whiskey or tea from the ship before us.  :)

In Mediterraneo A & B battles, there are 2 problems:

- It was the first scenario and ships were displayed very near from the beginning.
- Wind is so strong and ships move so fast (big space per turn).

I will modify the initial set up for this scenario.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 12, 2008, 07:17:48 am
Thoughts on Collisions and Ship Movement By the Computer
(warning- reading when tired may cause your head to explode)

We have been working hard to reduce the high numbers of collisions that regularly plague our games. They disrupt the line of battle, they anger allies and provide grave oppertunities to enemies. Yet, they persist to a large degree.

I am particularly interested in this problem because (not counting misunderstanding flag signals) I have paid dearly for numerous crashes with my own ships at crucial moments, that probably cost me ships, possibly even games.

I have just finished a turn before writing this where I carefully worked out the spaces and angles. Now I find after the turn played that 2 ships of my mine have collided and the enemy is approaching fast.

A thought reoccurs to me; it has to do with how the computer plays the turns and the ships. I do more fast and close manoevering than many players. In order for this to be successful, sometimes I have to figure down to the point of, ship B will cross the same water ship A was in earlier in the same turn. This should be ok, because ship A is at a certain speed and must cover a certain distance, therefore it has to be through that area before ship B gets there.

This is basic geometry, even basic math, but strangely, often it is not working. I have a ruler and a protractor beside my moniter, which I sometimes use to check angles and distances, yet I still get a strange number of collisions.

Then it occurred to me, I assume the computer simulates simotaneous movement (calculates the movement of all the ships to happen as if they were real time). But if the computer moves the ships in succession, first one, then the next, then the next, etc. a ship may be played into a collision location which wouldn't have been there yet if it were simotaneous movement. This would create artificial collisions.

If this were the case, it would explain a lot, including several crashes not with another captain that moved unexpectedly, but with my own ships when I knew where they were going and when. It would also mean you can not plan sequential use of the same space within a turn, because you would not know which ship the computer is going to move first.




Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 12, 2008, 12:56:10 pm
Computer calculates simultaneous movement. Well, not truly continuous. It breaks each turn in several subturns. Then moves all ships during 1 subturn's time space. Of course it moves one ship after another but it only check for collisions after each subturn when all ships moved. So I think that is not the problem.

Beware, due to server power limitations, in term of collisions perfect pixel is not used. Ships are substituted by rectangles so we have to be careful with bowsprit because in computer calculations it is as width as the rest of the ship.

I suspect there is a bug: when checking for collisions all ships are accounted as 74's dimensions. So maybe we collide with smaller ships, 64s and so on. I'm not sure about it, I will check it and fix it if I found a bug.

Anyway, in real life ships didn't sail so close ones from others because any wind change, minimal atmospheric local to ship changes, steal of wind from one ship to other, ..., will make ships' collision inevitable. Moreover ships in line need some space to allow them manoeuvre and turn.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 12, 2008, 04:33:40 pm
that is good information and sounds like the program has a reasonable approximation of simultaneous movement. I will remember the bowsprit, that may have been the cause my latest collision. None the less, I will have to practice larger spacing to cut down on my own crashes. When the enemy does something unexpected, the temptation is to take moves to the limit, but a crash between your own ships is so costly.

<<when checking for collisions all ships are accounted as 74's dimensions>>
1) what did you mean by checking

2) I am regularly surprised how complex the math underneath the game is.  I also wonder how high your coffee bill is  ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Zarby en Octubre 13, 2008, 08:23:46 pm
74 and 64 are ship sizes. The bigger ships have a bigger picture, but the computer checks for collisions using the 74 size ship image. So a 44 gun ship will have a smaller image and could end up in a collision even if the pictures do not overlap. Also a 112 gun ship could avoid a collision when seen as overlapping because its checked against a smaller size then its image.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 15, 2008, 05:45:40 pm
How many knots are we making lieutenant?

It would be helpful to know how fast a ship is moving through the water to find the best point of sail and for general sailing knowledge as you watch the speed fall and then rise while going through a tack. Also knowing the maximum speed of the different size ships would be helpful.

The computer must calculate the speed of each ship. Would it be difficult to add a readout of the ship's speed in knots/ hour, maybe part of the windspeed icon or under the ship in the banner?


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 16, 2008, 07:18:37 pm
We could display current ship's speed but there is some problem with scale:

http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1927.msg48138#msg48138
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 20, 2008, 06:54:45 pm
Quarterdeck page

1. Fatigue: 130 (+20)          is the 2nd number new, what does it mean?
2. Morale: 11 (-1)               what does the 2nd number mean here?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 20, 2008, 07:10:56 pm
Hello my friend. They are somehow new, but not brilliant new :)

1. Fatigue 130 (+20) is a new modifier caused to fatigue by combat shock. You have received more than 1000 damage points in the turn before. For each 500 points you get an extra 10% that affects to shooting's efficency. Also, the damage needed for your ship to see if strikes her colors or not is decreased in 100 points, for each 500 of damage received in the same turn.

2. Morale 11 (-1) is a modifier to your surrender roll if needed to make one. It is explained in Velmad 1.3 and it does modify your morale ONLY if you make a surrender roll. Your morale keeps being 11 anyway. It is obtained out of the number of friend ships vs enemy ships closer than 300 m, or if your flagship has or not struck her colors,...

Hope this helps ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 20, 2008, 07:27:11 pm

2. 1000 damage points, what damage points are you referring to hull/rigging??

3. for every 500 you get another 10% that effects efficency>>
efficency or accuracy, how can it effect efficiency?

4. if it is "hidden" and a temporary penalty that effects the computer calculations, why do we need to see it?


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 20, 2008, 07:30:22 pm
Not at all my friend. You might have not noticed it, but it has been there for some time now.

As far as I know it is total damage adding hull + rigging

Yep accuracy that is. Wrong word chosen it seems ;)

The reason for us to watch it is, among other probable reasons, to give us a chance to notice it and catch any undeserved penalty ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 20, 2008, 07:38:49 pm
by the way, about game 132, missing a Turn, my browser was still showing the previous turn on the Info page; my mistake. I read the update and know why so much damage, I was hit by 2 ships at once.

I am fighting a very large ship by myself; on the stern it says, O-R-I-E-N-T.
I got closed in by other ships; I either had to flee and take a beating for nothing or attack and possibly get destroyed. I decided to attack and I think I will be destroyed because there is no help I think that can come for several turns. 
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 20, 2008, 07:51:05 pm
ROTFLMAO :D :D :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 22, 2008, 05:05:04 am
Icon Picture Disappeared

I deleted my icon image from my image storage site because I thought that the Velmad server kept a copy when I uploaded it. But it was gone from Velmad too, so I had to put it back  on my image storage site again (Photobucket.com).

Why did that effect what happened on Velmad?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Octubre 22, 2008, 11:00:05 pm
Icon Picture Disappeared

I deleted my icon image from my image storage site because I thought that the Velmad server kept a copy when I uploaded it. But it was gone from Velmad too, so I had to put it back  on my image storage site again (Photobucket.com).

Why did that effect what happened on Velmad?

It looks like the forum here hotlinks the image you point it to (it does not store a copy at all, just the address).  When that image went away, nobody could load the image any more, because the site kept providing the same address for it.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Octubre 22, 2008, 11:08:53 pm
I can upload interesting historic or ships icons like yours to server if you like.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 23, 2008, 02:28:52 am
Player Icons
M. thank you for the offer of storing the image, I guess I can keep it on my image site, though I am trying out 3-4 to see which has the best options.

IF anyone cares the old fellow is Vice-Admiral Sir Hyde Parker, commander of the british squadron in Dogger banks, I'm using him since I'm playing 2 games of that.


I was interested at my low level of web knowledge how "hot linking" worked.

The Velmad server only keeps the address of the image, then
every time someone uses the forum and requests a page with one of my posts,
their computer is sent the address of the image, instead of the image,
so their computer has to send a request to Photobucket for the image?

If that is how it works (maybe simplified) it sounds good for the small website,  a transfer of bandwidth, but with more traffic for the Inet and probably a lot of extra requests to image storage sites.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 24, 2008, 05:35:18 am
EXCELLENT NEW PLAYER LEARNING ANIMATION

The BBC History of British sea power has a fine little animation that demonstrates the basic fighting sail attack concepts. Part 2 shows the movement of ships for the battle of Trafalgar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/launch_ani_trafalgar.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/launch_ani_trafalgar.shtml)

M. may like to add the link to the HELPS section




Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Octubre 28, 2008, 01:59:51 am
Wishgamer,
This has nothing to do with Velmad, but can you get on youplay? I have been trying for 4 days (using hotels buisness centers) and keep getting a "cannot connect" error message.   Thanks
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 28, 2008, 07:01:00 am
Hello wulfe, I suppose there has been a MAJOR CRASH :'( I can't enter since yesterday (if I'm not wrong, it might be for two days now)

Coffee:

1. Nope
2. As far as I know, if you send a party to fight the fire, then you've got a die roll. If it is good, then it drops one level, if it is bad, then it raises one level. If you reach a high level then you explode :o
3. To fire when you have a mast hanging on a side when you've been dismasted is one. More? Not sure now, should check the manual
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Octubre 28, 2008, 04:21:45 pm
Post Notification

If you select notification in a thread:
1. where do you get notified, private message, email ?
2. is the notification that there is a message after your post or any new message until you turn it off?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Octubre 29, 2008, 06:44:33 pm
Hello All,

I am very new although I have read the manual and beginners guide and signal's handbook...Is there a way to practice against the computer? How do I enter a scenario? Thank you very much ; )

Brendan  ID 411 ( I think? )
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Octubre 29, 2008, 07:01:46 pm
Hello Brendan!!

No, there is no way for you to practice against the computer because this hasn't got (at least not yet) any A.I.

To participate in one scenario you should get involved in a learning battle. On every month we run one, so November's game should start to get ready anytime soon this weekend or so, and should start playing around November the 10th or so as the latest date.

Hope you don't find this as a too slow start but the wait should be worth it. I'm not certain if Munrox could put you somewhere in an already running battle or at least give you access to one forum so you can read what it is happening and follow a battle.

Best regards, Wishgamer.

Of course, in the mean time, let us know about any doubt and/or impression you want to solve/share
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Octubre 30, 2008, 04:18:49 am
Thank you Wish,

 Okay - I'll have to wait and watch - Thanks for the quick reply - If I can get access to a running scenario that would be great just to learn ....
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 01, 2008, 05:45:33 pm
Yes, it is due to the new tacking rules. Valiant can't maintain her course and failed to tack.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Calsir en Noviembre 05, 2008, 10:36:06 pm
where does the speed indicator appear in the game? On the Improvements thread (http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1649.0 (http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1649.0)) it is said to be on the mouse over of a ship, but I can't see it, neither for the one under my control, neither for other vessels.

Was it removed?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 05, 2008, 11:30:36 pm
It only appears on your ship after clicking on rudder button.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 08, 2008, 01:35:09 am
For all ships or only for our ship?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Noviembre 11, 2008, 01:23:45 am
Hello All,

Any news on the November Learning Battle? I would love to start learning!

Also - I was wondering how many turns are typically played each day, week...It seems some players are more active than others, or just have computer access at work ; )

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 11, 2008, 01:54:03 am
Hello Brendan. Yes, we are preparing november learning game. I'm going to open a new thread.

Usually we play one turn per day. There are players that arrange games and play more turns. Of course you can arrange a game with players and play slowly taking some days.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Noviembre 11, 2008, 02:41:59 am
Thank you - Sounds great

I have played other simulations where the turns are more formatted, ie every Tuesday and Friday...I find this system much more welcome : )

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Noviembre 11, 2008, 07:29:42 am
New Ship Speed Function

I was wondering if the function (speed/knots) could be placed into the User Interface Information pop-up box as a constant readout like the "distance in meters" and "sail strength" numbers? That would make it easy to read, without any mouse-over required.>>

For all ships or only for our ship?>>

It probably would be more accurate just to have it for your own ship.
You are throwing the log to measure your ship speed, but you can only estimate the speed of other ships.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 18, 2008, 12:35:43 am
1. If a fallen mast is entangled shooting have a high 50% of getting in fire. If the enemy shoot us in that side he also have % (broadside/10) to start a fire in our ship.

There is always a very small % of starting a fire in an enemy ship when shooting. Depending on enemy's hull points we have better chances of getting a critic shot and starting a fire, magazine shot, ...

2. No, it is not possible. I wanted to simulate that sometimes a ship can not stop a fire.

3. tahitian torch dance without doubt!  :D

Actually none of that affect. Lots of space to improve fire rules here.

4. There is some 50% of decrease fire at level 1 if a team is sent. For each higher level -10% chance. If successful, fire will decrease 2 levels if no shooting or sail change was ordered, only one level if any of those happened.

If fire team fails then there is 50% of fire increase 1 level and 50% of maintain.

If no team is sent then fire increase always 1 level.

At level 3 there is 33% of exploding. At level 4 risk is 66%. At level 5 ship explodes.

A ship entangled with a ship in flames have 10% per fire level of getting in fire.


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Noviembre 18, 2008, 03:47:59 pm
Grappled perhaps? ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Noviembre 18, 2008, 07:24:42 pm
I put remains because this message usually appears when one of the crashed ships is a no sail the next turn. If the other crashed ship collided again both ships are entangled, so the ship at no sail remains hooked if we count as hooked the previous turn when they collided. In other words, she couldn't disentangle from the other ship. She is at collision range but didn't suffer collision penalties because she was at no sail.

If it is still confusing I'll remove "remains".
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Noviembre 21, 2008, 03:57:45 pm
Is there a reason that Velmad uses 15 degree points of sail, rather than the 11.25 degree points that are more common in naval tradition?  This is the difference between having 24 different points and 32.

The rules seem to imply that there is no strict limit on how close a ship can sail to the wind.  Traditionally, the assumption was that six points off of the wind (67.5 degrees) was the best possible for a square rigged ship (though there were undoubtedly differences between individual ships).  The closest we could approximate that would be four of our points (60 degrees). Is there a chart anywhere of ship performance at various points of sail?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Noviembre 21, 2008, 09:19:37 pm
That, my dear captain B. is a wonderful thing for you to volunteer to make. Just the thing for the modern captain with a scientific bent. I should be most interested in viewing the fruits of you labor.

A glass of wine with you, Sir.
Heh.  I wish I had the ability to make such a thing, but I've only played about 20 game turns total and in them I've only been through about 6 of our 24 available points of sail.  Since my ships were coming under considerable fire during those times and gradually loosing sails and rigging, I don't think that any data I could take from them would be useful to a wider audience.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 06, 2008, 06:23:46 pm
That, my dear captain B. is a wonderful thing for you to volunteer to make. Just the thing for the modern captain with a scientific bent. I should be most interested in viewing the fruits of you labor.

A glass of wine with you, Sir.
Heh.  I wish I had the ability to make such a thing, but I've only played about 20 game turns total and in them I've only been through about 6 of our 24 available points of sail.  Since my ships were coming under considerable fire during those times and gradually loosing sails and rigging, I don't think that any data I could take from them would be useful to a wider audience.

Well, I spoke too soon I guess.  Calsir and I have been playing a game where we agreed to spend the first several turns sailing around in circles gathering data before trying to blow each other up.  Here's some early results:

(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr128/BlckKnght/SailPerformance.png)

This polar chart shows the speed reported by the game at each of the 24 points of sail in Velmad.  It's not shown on the chart, but the speed at one and zero points away from the wind are negative (the ship moves backwards).
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Diciembre 06, 2008, 08:12:32 pm
 :o :o :o

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/fc/goodjob.gif)

I am sure Munrox will like it very much  :)

In order to complete the analisis, it could be interesting show two more graphics with the other two types of sail. I don't know with which sail type is done  ::)

Thank you very much

Munrox, i think the graphic give us very interesting information about ship movement in its wind attitude  :o . Look, for example, that it likes that its better sail at 4 than 5, or at 6 than 7 and so on...  ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 06, 2008, 10:54:31 pm
In order to complete the analisis, it could be interesting show two more graphics with the other two types of sail. I don't know with which sail type is done  ::)

This one was with Medium sail, but the graph with light sail is exactly the same shape, just half the size.  I suspect one made for Full sail would be 150% the size or something, but still in the same shape (I'll test a few data points, to be sure).

I gathered the data using HMS Minerve (a nominally 38 gun frigate) in force 3 winds.  The inner and outer circles on the graph are at 5 and 10 knots.  Top speed is when sailing large (8-10 points from the wind) and is 7.3 knots.  Best VMG is 2.4 knots at four points from the wind.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 06, 2008, 11:26:59 pm
We could make a graph with 2 colours, one for top speed and one for VMG. Anyway, great job, I will add it to help thread.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 07, 2008, 03:23:32 pm
I salute you Sir,

I had every confidence in your ability. It is amazing what can be accomplished with a log board and a minute glass.
I believe we have a new Galileo, a Newton.
Huzzah, Huzzah.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Calsir en Diciembre 07, 2008, 03:44:45 pm
We could make a graph with 2 colours, one for top speed and one for VMG. Anyway, great job, I will add it to help thread.

Munrox, the polar diagram is useful exactly because it gives information for both velocity (the radius of the plot) and vmg, which is the distance from the x-axis. Using the data of both BlckKnght's and mine, I have made a normalised polar diagram which is valid for every sail setting:

(http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo346/calsir/polar_normal.png)

It adds nothing to BlckKnght diagram, the main difference is that the data plot in the graph is the ratio between the speed at each point of sail and the maximum speed at each sail setting, also known as normalised velocity. What I mean is that you don't need three plots, just one is sufficient, if the top speeds are known, for each ship type, wind force and sail setting.

It is also interesting to note that at medium sails a ship goes twice as fast than at light sail, while at full sails it goes three times as fast, so BlckKnghts guess is correct. Also, Sabina and Matilde behaviours were consistent with HMS Minerve.

With the data we gathered we were not able to determine the effects of wind and ship type, so far.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 07, 2008, 03:45:21 pm
<<It's not shown on the chart, but the speed at one and zero points away from the wind are negative (the ship moves backwards).>>

1. Do you not mean directly into the wind?

2. I still question a post some weeks ago that reported it was common to have 0 knots or sternway (negative knots) when tacking. If that were true, failure to tack would be common.

This certainly is not what is recorded both in literature and in eye witness accounts of frigate duals or blocade duty. They would have you think that a ship coming close to not succeeding was a shocking event for the officer of the deck and the bosun, who would take immeadiate action with the sails and helm to accomplish the tack. While actually failing to tack was a rare event.

I shall look for some descriptions.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 07, 2008, 04:04:45 pm
Munrox, the polar diagram is useful exactly because it gives information for both velocity (the radius of the plot) and vmg, which is the distance from the x-axis.

That's true, sorry  ::). Thanks Calsir.

Maybe I will decrease speed at 30 just a bit so fleets don't sail very close to wind and set more realistic courses.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 07, 2008, 09:15:35 pm
<<It's not shown on the chart, but the speed at one and zero points away from the wind are negative (the ship moves backwards).>>

1. Do you not mean directly into the wind?

2. I still question a post some weeks ago that reported it was common to have 0 knots or sternway (negative knots) when tacking. If that were true, failure to tack would be common.

I think my wording was unclear.  The ships were reported to have a small amount of sternway when pointed directly into the wind and also when turned one point (15 degrees) in either direction.

Citar
This certainly is not what is recorded both in literature and in eye witness accounts of frigate duals or blocade duty. They would have you think that a ship coming close to not succeeding was a shocking event for the officer of the deck and the bosun, who would take immeadiate action with the sails and helm to accomplish the tack. While actually failing to tack was a rare event.

While making sternway would be accurate if a heading into the wind was maintained for a significant time, the real issue for Velmad is that there is no momentum maintained from one turn to the next.  To make tacking realistic, you should keep significant headway through the initial turn into the wind, then try to turn out on the other side before you lose it all and become unable to steer.  The current model is more like box hauling.


In addition to recording the speeds I used in the chart, I also made notes of each heading where a steering order did not result in the expected turn.  Here are those results:

First off, when well free of the wind, HMS Minerve and HMS Blanche could turn by either one or three points in either direction.  This is different from larger ships in other scenarios where full rudder results in a turn of only two points.

When three points from the wind, a hard turn to windward only would result in two points of change (to one point from the wind).

When two points from the wind, hard turning resulted in only one point of change. This resulted in the same ending heading as a light turn, but less speed was carried during the turn.

At one point from the wind, the ship is sailing backwards.  No hard turns worked from this point of sail.  You can turn either one point up into the eye of the wind, or one point down (to two points).  Turning down hard did change the speed giving a little bit of headway.

When pointing dead into the wind, all turns work as usual (despite the ship making sternway).  However, if you try to sail straight, you end up turning back into the direction you came from (though this might have been randomly selected).  Hard turns work as expected, allowing the Minerve to turn 3 points.

Here's a table showing the unusual turns in red and orange:

Initial Heading  \  Steering|Hard to leeward|Light to leeward|Straight|Light to windward|Hard to windward
Into the wind|3 points from wind|1 point from wind|One point back the way you came (?)|
One point from wind|2 points from wind|2 point from wind|1 point from wind|Into the wind|Into the wind
Two points from wind|5 points from wind|3 point from wind|2 points from wind|1 point from wind|1 point from wind
Three points from the wind|6 points from wind|4 point from wind|3 points from the wind|2 point from wind|1 point from wind
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 08, 2008, 08:22:02 pm
Yes, I understand, that is the point I have been trying to make. A tack should start with some speed and be a smooth, sweeping turn, carrying as much momentum as possible, not only to complete the tack, but to maintain speed. Instead all tacks now look like they are performed by a pack of grass combing lubbards fresh off the receiving ships :) They come to a near stop whatever the conditions, or horrors, gather sternway, as if all the ships have become Polycrests.  :o

The unusual-responses that turn the wrong way you mentioned- those are programmed, showing a failed tack.

A few ideas for captains to ruminate on

1. that some tacks are attempted at too slow a speed and should fail, but we need some data provided, a table with wind speed/ship speed, so that we know when to try and when not to, and don't have to guess.

2. the rate at which speed declines as a ship turns into the wind could be adjustment lower. I really think an elite and veteran crew should almost never fail to tack or gain sternway (98%) if they start with the minimum speed

3. the critical info is the knot speed, it would help if it were displayed constantly. It seems like a minor thing to mouse over, but in fact it takes time, often you have to try several attempts to get it to display, occationally it won't display at all without refreshing the page. And if you are trying to coordinate several ships, you have to switch back and forth between pages in order to have the mouse-over work which is very slow! Putting the knot speed in the Pop-up box with the other ship information would help

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 08, 2008, 08:42:31 pm
A DISTURBING IDEA

Does the Velmad community ever used a study group for a complicated subject like collisions, tacking, boarding, etc. ? A group of 2-3 members who would work on the question together for a couple of weeks, maybe do some research or testing as B. did; then report back with a couple of options for M. to consider.

It could cut down on the "beta testing" when we introduce new features.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 08, 2008, 08:51:52 pm
A few ideas for captains to ruminate on

1. that some tacks are attempted at too slow a speed and should fail, but we need some data provided, a table with wind speed/ship speed, so that we know when to try and when not to, and don't have to guess.

2. the rate at which speed declines as a ship turns into the wind could be adjustment lower. I really think an elite and veteran crew should almost never fail to tack or gain sternway (98%) if they start with the minimum speed

3. the critical info is the knot speed, it would help if it were displayed constantly. It seems like a minor thing to mouse over, but in fact it takes time, often you have to try several attempts to get it to display, occationally it won't display at all without refreshing the page. And if you are trying to coordinate several ships, you have to switch back and forth between pages in order to have the mouse-over work which is very slow! Putting the knot speed in the Pop-up box with the other ship information would help

There are few issues with your ideas.  The main one is that currently there is no momentum in the game's model (as far as my testing could find).  The ship's current speed is entirely determined by the current wind strength, the ship's current angle to the wind and it's current sail and rudder settings.  Nothing from any previous turn has any effect.  This means that when you tack, you will always make a bit of sternway.  There is no way to avoid it, except by wearing around instead.

Until this is changed, I can't see how we can avoid the current unpleasant situation when a line tries to come about.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 08, 2008, 09:39:34 pm
Yes, currently there is no momentum but we could add it if we find it useful.

Maybe making 0 speed the first turn into wind could solve the problem.

All suggestions, ideas, information, historic research, feature request, ... ,as always, are welcome and I consider all of them when developing the game.

A tacking picture from todoababor;
(http://www.todoababor.es/vida_barcos/img/maniobra/viradaavante.gif)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 08, 2008, 10:07:57 pm
M. I like this diagram mucho;
the timing and order of moving the sails is interesting.
It looks like in #2 he lets the head fall off to gain a little more speed before starting the tack.

Now if we can find precise information on speeds during the 9 stages.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 09, 2008, 12:47:39 am
Yes, currently there is no momentum but we could add it if we find it useful.

Hmm, perhaps you could delay the effects of heading changes for one turn, just like the effects of changing sails are now delayed?  You could then implement the steering issues (which cause failed tacks) based on ship speed, rather than directly based on heading.

Citar
A tacking picture from todoababor;
(http://www.todoababor.es/vida_barcos/img/maniobra/viradaavante.gif)

As it is implemented in Velmad today, steps four through six would each take place with their stern just below the bowspirit of the ship in step three.  By step seven, the ship would be making headway again and it's stern would be where the number 3 is.

That's bad news for any ships following in a line, since there is no room to tack in succession unless the ships are far apart and slow moving.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 09, 2008, 02:36:06 pm
Added a low positive speed the first turn into wind and at 15.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 14, 2008, 01:06:36 am
If you make a move for a ship other than your own (for example, a ship belonging to a player on vacation), can you go back and change the orders later?

I moved one of Calsir's ships a little while ago but I've reconsidered the course after looking at the previous turn's results again.  Unfortunately, since the ship has a move entered, I can't access it again to change the order.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 14, 2008, 01:09:23 am
The system doesn't allow to change an inactive ship's orders, sorry.  :-\ Maybe in the future..  ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 17, 2008, 06:53:16 pm
auction questions

at the bottom ot the page what does "level" mean?

what does the "victory" statistic mean?

why was the 1st of june A, auction disable several hours before the time ran out?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Diciembre 17, 2008, 08:21:30 pm
Hi captain,  :)

Let me trying to answer you  ;D

* The "level" means the average level of all the players who at that moment have bidden for ships in each side... . You can see all the captain's level in Ranking Menu.

* The statistic about victory is more difficult to explain because the number is a resoult of some parametres  ::) May be Munrox, could explani better this point... I can say that it shows the estimated probability of win according to the amount of points of the auction related to some scenario's figures (you can see that numbers at the botton of the info shown in Scenarios Library Menu).

* This is a normal confusion... if you see the time remaining in the ships that you have bidding for, there are 23 hours more than the time shown in the aution... That is because in the ship box is counted the time for move the first turn of the game  :o so, actually you have to control the auction countdown! , when it is over, the auction is closed and the ships are assigned to their current owners...

But if a captain doesn't get a ship finally, he can try to take part in the ranking game if a captain with more than one ships is agree with giving him one by paying the points that he paid in the auction. Usually captains get some ships in order to be sure to take part in the game, so it is normal to share ships if it is necessary.

Recently, how the velmad players number grows  :-* , Munrox is opening two ranking games for giving the opportunity to play to players that don't get ship in the first ranking auction.

Well, my dear captain  8) , probably we will encounter in the high seas... probably the first time, near to Brest in the Atlantic Ocean forming order or battle and calling to quarters our people ;)

Regards
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 17, 2008, 08:31:42 pm
Auction's victory stats depends on ships' power, crews' quality and captains' level of each side.

Level is the average level of captains (not players) in each side. One player can be the captain of more than one ship.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 18, 2008, 06:18:26 am
Thank you for the detailed explanation. If I understand correctly,

1. level is an average of the ranking grade of all the captains on each side.

2. victory is an estimate to win based on the strength of the ships on each side.

Going back a week or two, when a ship is on fire, if you have a fire suppression crew and don't do other fatigue activities:

3. did you say there was a 50% chance the fire would decrease 1 level each turn?

4. what is the % chance a fire will stay the same and what is the % chance the fire will grow 1 level.

5. if a fire reaches level 5, how soon will a magazine explode?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 19, 2008, 11:59:35 pm
If you don't shoot and don't change sails, fire decrease 2 levels if team is successful (50% chance).

If it is not successful, 50% maintains, 50% grows. That is, 50% decreases, 25% maintains, 25% grows.

http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1767.msg50428#msg50428
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Diciembre 23, 2008, 12:59:40 am
I was replying to another post, which was asking for new ideas on improving Velmad. While I was writing the thread seems to have disappeared. ???

I want to share what I've written anyway, so I'll post it here (hurray for copy and paste).

I'd like for it to be easier to deal with ship collisions, both intentional and unintentional.  Because of the length of one game turn, it is almost impossible to maneuver in close quarters without frequent and often very frustrating collisions.  Boarding is very difficult because the collisions are hard to predict and deal with once then happen.

Serious collisions between friendly ships should be very rare and if the ships were on nearly parallel courses, there should be few consequences other than a few cut lines and some embarrassment for the captains involved.  Even if the initial collision would be rather violent, it should take just a few rounds to get free (rather than the five, ten, or more turns it takes now).  Here are some possible ways to make it work.

My thinking is that ships that are put on collision course should not actually follow that course, since a captain of a ship in the Age of Sail wouldn't steer his vessel like a classical galley. Instead, the helmsman would be ordered to take evasive action before the collision takes place.  Ships that would otherwise collide would instead turn away from each other enough to avoid a high speed hull to hull impact.

In the game, the difference would be in the behavior of ships detected to have collided during a turn.  Currently the ships involved are set to no-sails and stop right where the collision took place.  Instead I think the collision should deflect the ships from their path and only partially slow their movement.

Even though the hulls don't hit each other, the ships would still become entangled, since the yards and rigging of a ship extend beyond the sides of the ship itself.  The fatigue and damage effects of collisions would remain the same (though most of the damage should go to the rigging rather than the hull).

As an example, if one ship heading east was going to collide bow to bow with one heading north, they would both end up heading northeast nearly parallel to each other and be closely entangled.  Entangled ships would continue to move according to the average of their sail settings, though they'd go more slowly due to one ship blocking the other's wind.  The rudders of entangled ships would be less effective at changing their headings, perhaps allowing the ships to turn together up to one point if they each try to steer the same way.

When entangled, part of the crew of a ship could be assigned to disentangle it in a similar fashion to how teams can be assigned to firefighting or cutting free a fallen mast.  If the action was successful, the ship would be turned by one or two points to bring its bow away from the other ship (who could dispatch a similar team and turn itself) and no further collisions between them would take place.  This would avoid the excessive fatigue caused in the current model by repeated collisions (though sending the team should probably add a small amount of fatigue).  Once the ships were parallel they would no longer be entangled and they could use their rudders to turn away from each other normally and sail off.

In battle, this could be made more interesting by allowing the opposite sort of action, grappling.  Grappling in the age of sail included using grappling hooks to haul in an enemy ship and then once entangled, the topmen on the yardarms would tie parts of the rigging together.  If entangled (or within a small distance), a crew could grapple an enemy to prevent it from moving away.  If one ship's crew was grappling and the other  trying to cut free there would have to be some sort of opposed roll to see if they could separate or not.  Grappling could also rotate the ships to be more parallel (for better broadsides).

A possible extension of grappling would be to allow one ship to tow another badly damaged (dismasted) ship.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 23, 2008, 07:12:56 pm
It was my original message, which I posted.
Intended to be more along the line of something fun, new features, bells & whistles, (ie. bow chasers) something one "want's santa to bring" rather than discussion on current problems.

Posting frequently, if there is no reponse or the dialog is of no significance, rather than clutter up the forums, I will delete many topics that don't get response. After seeing no comments, I pulled it. It seems sea officers don't write to Santa.

Having said that, you wrote a lengthy and thoughtful discourse my fine feathered friend.
Part of the problem is we tend not to collect our writings, so it gets scattered and lost. There have been a couple of threads on collision and many loose comments.

As recent as last summer we still had a lot of intentional collisions, made if they were to advantage. Some of the rule changes and some education have cut that significantly. I don't think some captains realized that real smack on collisions were a rarity because of possible catastrophic consequences to both the hull & masts and I also don't believe it was generally considered honourable combat. 

As for rule changes, rear enders use to result in both ships stopped, now the lead ship keeps sailing. Another change is that while side swipes stop both ships, they use to automatically cause an entanglement. I am still amazed when I see ships stopped, but not entangled, with 4-10 Turns ahead to get free.

As I have said before, some amount of collisions are part of the Game Turn format, moving in jumps, you can't make incremental corrections to your course as you can on a ship or in Continuous Play.

 I think you make some interesting points and suggestion. What I would like from Santa is some hard data,  written accounts of what damage resulted from collisions, so that we are basing changes on something besides what we imagine would or wouldn't occur.

Now grappling hooks, that is more like what I was talking about. Normally, I would have several reservations about them, sharp points, rusty, lawsuits, etc., but on Christmas, I wish you a stocking hung from the deck beam, full of grappling hooks.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 23, 2008, 08:48:59 pm
I think it could be funny. I will open a new thread about Velmad's wishes. We did something like that about a year ago when I announced the future new features.


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 30, 2008, 06:39:23 pm
Question about boards

1. what is the differnce between locked & sticky posts?
2. are they admin only features?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 30, 2008, 06:45:46 pm
Locked: No one can post, only admin.

Sticky, they are on top of page even if they are very old post. So important information is always on the first page.

I think moderators (not only admin) can lock and stick post.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 06, 2009, 05:40:04 am
OLD BATTLE INFORMATION

I was thinking about an old battle, Santos 178?, thinking about that ridiculously long british line of battle. I can't imagine why an admiral thought it was a good idea to stretch out his forces so far.

1. Is the basic information on previous ranking battles kept somewhere that is available to everyone (who won, who were the captains, what were the scores, etc.)?


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 06, 2009, 04:48:50 pm
There is some info but not as detailed as you said.

Explanation:
http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1919.0

Historial:
http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1890.0

Currently I only add ranking, championship or teams battles to that thread.

About Santos 1782, historically both admirals assembled a long line. French fleet quickly formed a line and both lines battled with inverse courses.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 06, 2009, 07:15:45 pm
Yes, I remember reading that now, not a decisive battle. [woops, looks like it was a decisive battle for the brits]

So how did the French side end up in 3 columns right from the start of our scenerio?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 06, 2009, 07:25:39 pm
They were supposed to be sailing on cruise order (usually in columns) when english found them. We tried to give an advantage to english making french not ready for battle at turn #0. Ironically, In our battles the advantage was for french because they are closer. We played this scenario once before in an Argentina vs Spain match. Argentinian players (on french side) won that game.

Here is some comment about the historical battle:
http://www.cleverley.org/navy/saintsbattle.html
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 08, 2009, 07:07:20 pm
(Post by Munrox, not Pellew)

Yes, so some time ago there was a rule that made normal crew couldn't shoot with > 100% fatigue.

When crews are so tired they need to take rest one each three turns, this way:

turn #1: 100% fatigue - normal crew doesn't fire (rest 20%)
turn #2: 80% fatigue - normal crew fires
turn #3: 90% fatigue - normal crew fires
turn #4: 100% fatigue, resting... (as turn #1)

If you are in a critical situation you have the option to waste powder and shoot with more than 100% fatigue. Each captain should know what is the best option for his ship.

Here better crews can maintain lower fatigue firing one of each three turns:

rookie: (#1) 110% rest, (#2) 90% fire, (#3) 100% fire, (#4) 110% rest...
normal: (#1) 100% rest, (#2) 80% fire, (#3) 90% fire, (#4) 100% rest...
vet: (#1) 90% rest, (#2) 70% fire, (#3) 80% fire, (#4) 90% rest...
elite: (#1) 80% rest, (#2) 60% fire, (#3) 70% fire, (#4) 80% rest...

That means in the long run that better crews maintain a higher average shooting performance:

rookie:

(#1) no fire: -100% performance, (#2) -54% perfomance, (#3) -60% performance =  -71,3 % average

or in positive numbers:

(#1) no fire: +0% performance, (#2) +46% performance, (#3) +40% performance = 28.6 % average

normal: (#1) +0%, (#2) +60%, (#3) +55% = 38.3 % average
vet: (#1) +0%, (#2) +72%, (#3) +68% = 46.6 % average
elite: (#1) +0%, (#2) +82%, (#3) +79% = 53.6 % average

We should also consider "Minimum damage of a broadside changes depending on crew quality" rule that even make better crews get better shooting performances.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 08, 2009, 07:08:29 pm
 <<Yes, so some time ago there was a rule that made>>
Hee, hee, that would be Internet time... October  :)


M. has made this beautiful, lengthy post, but I seem to be missing something. Maybe someone can help me.

rookie: (#1) 110% rest, (#2) 90% fire, (#3) 100% fire, (#4) 110% rest...
normal: (#1) 100% rest, (#2) 80% fire, (#3) 90% fire, (#4) 100% rest...
vet: (#1) 90% rest, (#2) 70% fire, (#3) 80% fire, (#4) 90% rest...
elite: (#1) 80% rest, (#2) 60% fire, (#3) 70% fire, (#4) 80% rest...

1. I see no advantage here in this chart for vet/elite, they have to rest 1 out of 3 Turns just like the rookie does.

2. It also looks like they are resting sooner at 80/90 F. instead of 100/110 F. so they have to start the rotation sooner, not later. Isn't that a disadvantage?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Calsir en Enero 08, 2009, 09:47:53 pm
They can fire twice every three turns at earlier fatigue level, meaning that their fire will be more effective. For instance a normal crew who wanted to fire at the 80% fatigue level should fire once every other turn (1/2) while the veteran and the elite can fire 2/3 of the time.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 08, 2009, 10:17:24 pm
It is an advantage, an elite crew can rest 20% when they have 80% fatigue or more. A rookie crew only can rest 20% when they have 110% fatigue or more. You can decide shooting or not shooting, or maybe you have no target that turn.

Elite crew:

If you make 23 shots, you can shoot from 0% to 200%(3 times), with 67,4% average and shots with as low as 40% performance.

Or you can shoot 8 turns till 80% fatigue, rest to 60%, shoot 2 times, rest 60%, shoot 2 times, rest, shoot 2 times, rest and so on. That are 18 shots, all with >= 79% performance, 84.5% average.

In this case if you sum all, continuous shooting gets 1550% total, and 2/3 shooting gets 1521%, but with 2/3 you have a ready crew (80% fatigue) that can board other vessel, repair hull, ... and with continuous shooting you have a fatigued crew (200%) that can not board or repair hull.

If we do the same calculus with normal crew, 23 turns:

a- continuous shooting gets 21 shots (can not shoot twice at 200%), 50.23% average, 1055% total.
b- 2/3 shooting at 80%,90%,100% resting... : 19 shots with 67,63% average, 1285% total.

If normal crew could do 2/3 shooting at 60%,70%,80% as elite, we would get 18 shots with 74.16% average and 1335% total, better result than a and b. In this example we can see than starting the rotation sooner is better.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Enero 09, 2009, 12:54:33 am
Aaahhhh, I get it  :)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 22, 2009, 09:35:33 pm
Mx. didn't you use to mark the admirals on the Fleet page?

Is the Allied Admiral ship Santa Ana in Trafalga 4??
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 23, 2009, 12:07:48 am
Le Bucentaure is the main admiral of the allied fleet, the infamous Villenueve who fled in Aboukir. Then there are some vice or rear admirals:

Vanguard (rearguard in battle)
Santa Ana (Ignacio de Álava)

Center
Le Bucentaure  (Villenueve) Flagship, fleet admiral
Santisima Trinidad (Baltasar Hidalgo de Cisnero) - Center squad chief (no command in velmad's scenario)

Rearguard (vanguard in battle)
Le Formidable (Dumanoir)

Observation squad
Principe de Asturias (Federico Gravina) observation squad flagship
L'Algesiras (Charles Magon) - observation squad second division chief

Edited:

You can see chief ships underlined in scenario library and in the game map.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 25, 2009, 05:37:09 pm
BOARDING CHANGES

<<The Royal Oak boards the Provence taking part of the deck!
Attacker casualties: 2 dead and 2 wounded men
Defender casualties: 0 dead and 21 wounded men
(0 decks, 386 / 260, 2 morale, +fatigue, 0 quality, luck -0.05)
Her crew loses 1 morale points.>>

Wow, I didn’t see the final discussion or announcement this was going into effect.
Will someone itereate or point me to the reference post on the changes concerning Boarding.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 25, 2009, 05:49:52 pm
Here Pellew:

http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=2142.0
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 25, 2009, 06:32:06 pm
Ok, I did see the final discussion, I just didn't read all of it  :D

I know you have extra time this afternoon, so I posted a lot of questions and after you answer them, you know what will be coming  ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 28, 2009, 08:55:29 am
If anyone is interested in the topics of rank in Velmad or leadership, I posted a lengthy proposal in the spanish forum, but in english.

http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=2060.msg55543#msg55543 (http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=2060.msg55543#msg55543)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Calsir en Enero 28, 2009, 11:54:35 am
If anyone is interested in the topics of rank in Velmad or leadership, I posted a lengthy proposal in the spanish forum, but in english.

That is an interesting argument. I agree that division and fleet commanders should be given a share of their subordinates score. This measure would also have what I consider a beneficial side effect; it would reduce the necessity that an admiral currently has to control more than one ship in its division or fleet. Besides, some sort of flag transfer between ships could be beneficial as well, meaning that an admiral whose flagship is lost can continue to give orders to the fleet by giving signals from a different ship while her captain retains ship control.

Now a couple of counterpoints:

1. Should the fleet admiral receive a share of divisions other than his own? Also, since I suppose the points awarded to each captain are related to the costs of bidding for ships, another option might be to give the admiral extra point equal to a fraction of his subordinates while avoiding to curtail a captain's already meagre share.

2. If I remember correctly, in the Royal Navy post captains were promoted to admirals by seniority only, rather than performance. It would pose a problem here in the game because usually one captain was promoted when an admiral retired or died. Hopefully, this way of improving one's position should not become statistically significant in velmad.

3. Reviewing point 2, on the long run we are bound to have a strong numerical prevalence of admirals, unless newcomers are prevented to join their esteemed ranks.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 28, 2009, 06:03:53 pm
Good points Calsirs

As to you first comment, I saw that to good effect by Peon9 who used a 2nd ship to lead his squadron. It is amazing how well that 2nd ship understood where the admiral wanted to go even without recieving flag signals ;)

1. I would say no to the first part simply because I am under 2 desires, make that 3: one for accuracy, one for fairness, and one for simplicity. I saw a suggestion in a post recently "from the honourable Senator from Nebraska" that would require a dedicated server to figure out the math.

2. There was a limit that was set at both lieutenant and captain. You had to pass for lieutenant and also be made captain. Both those hurdles are missed in our game when you begin as a captain, so there needs to be some place a limit is placed to weed out the capable from the enthusiastic.

I know the kind hearted will want to "give everyone a turn at being the big cheese, but in life the higher you go, the greater the cost for letting someone unqualified at the top. (look what it has been doing in our country the last few years). I shudder to think of the cost of lives and ships in Valmad from a unqualified admiral.  ;D

Seriously, The difference between a typical home game and a Ranking battle is that one has 5 players and takes a few hours,and the other has 20-30 players and takes a month. There is a much higher price for letting someone that isn't ready lead.

I know it is shockingly unAmerican, but I don't mind saying, "sorry Fred, you may never get to be an Admiral in a ranking game. Even if you play 30 years. You may not be good enough or you may not be willing to work hard enough to get promoted and you can't buy your way in," (the way it is now). That's just the way it is, "darts anyone?"

Besides, my dear Sir, anyone can be an admiral in a private battle, but for the good of the Service, in Ranking battles we must have only the finest England has to offer.  8)


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 28, 2009, 06:53:25 pm
CAST ADRIFT

I have all but dismasted a FR 70 gun (only 125 is left on 1 mast) yet I have been having difficulty catching what should be a floating tree.

The suggestion has been made that in a force 6 wind, it is drifting fast. Since my 80 gun ship is headed leeward, it would drift just as fast, plus I have 3 masts in good condition, so even at PV, I should close 400 m. easily. How is it a log is hard to catch??

This also happened with 2 collided ships I couldn't come up to at PV even though I was heading the same direction they were drifting. It's as if drift was added to ships at No Sail, but not to the ships that are underway.

game 199
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 28, 2009, 07:28:19 pm
In #199, do you mean 3decker London and 74 Conquerant?

In #199 London will catch Le Conquerant for sure. Even with medium sail you will close to her pretty soon.

You are turning and getting wind. Just continue.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 28, 2009, 07:48:56 pm
Yes, now that I am at MS and running straight after her.

The problem was at PV, turning to bring guns to bear for raking, she would be out of good range before I could fire.

With only 1/6 of 1 mast, (what is that, 1 stay sail for a 70 gun) she should have almost 0 way on. I should be drifting as fast as she,so she shouldn't be going out of range.


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 28, 2009, 08:22:15 pm
weren't you sailing in other direction?  ::)

Edited:

By the way, if she has 1/6 of mast that is not the same as having 1/6 propulsion. Mast points mean canvas but also rigging, woods and cables, sorry I don't know the right name in english.

Rigging, mast and speed is one of the things I was thinking about when I talked about modifications that are on the way but not ready for v1.3. I'm thinking about assigning 100 points (100%) to each mast, each part of a mast and each mast maybe with different "power/propulsion supply", and some other modifications.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 29, 2009, 02:48:51 am
SAIL HANDLING FOR DUMMIES, the midshipmans primer for unlocking the secrets of ...

 For some reason I had assumed that the mast numbers were associated with  sq. meter of canvas, which would equate loosely to speed; if you lost 20% of your canvas, you lost 20% of your pulling power.                                                                                                                                                                                                 

1. Now I wonder how you choose ship speeds ?

2. weren't you sailing in the other direction?
Yes, I skip that for the momment and refer to another group of ships that were all moving in the same direction.
They were also moving at the same speed, even though two were entangled while min was at PV and has 3 good masts.



Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 29, 2009, 06:11:19 am
IS THAT A FORETOPMAST I SEE LASHED ON YOUR DECK


1. I assumed the sail/rigging/spar numbers represented some sq. meter amount of canvas, that in turn represnted an amount of pull for the ship. What does the number actually represent?

2. In brief, how do you calculate a ship's speed (I mean the computer).

3. Is there a wind drift factor or is that someones imagination?

4. If there is, how is it calculated?



Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 29, 2009, 02:19:13 pm
1. It is a mixture of canvas efficiency. Maybe you have many sq meters but with some longitudinal breaks that make wind scape. Round holes didn't exist there were "L" holes and large "I" holes due to chained shots.

So mast points represent a mixture of canvas efficiency (status) and rigging status. If a mast is near 0 points it means the mast is badly damaged, rigging and cables cut, (of course canvas pierced), and maybe near to fall.

2,3,4. There is some polar graph somewhere in the forum. I will search it. Then there are modifiers due to hull status, rigging status, ... 
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Enero 29, 2009, 10:00:19 pm
2,3,4. There is some polar graph somewhere in the forum. I will search it. Then there are modifiers due to hull status, rigging status, ... 

Here is the graph:
(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr128/BlckKnght/SailPerformance.png)

This shows the relative speeds at each given point of sail.  I gathered the data with HMS Minerve, a 5th rate frigate.  The concentric rings are at 5 and 10 knots.  This data is for medium sail.  With full sails the speed is 150% of what is shown, with light sail it is 50%.  Munrox may have changed some of speeds (especially at small angles to the wind) since this graph was made.

The modifiers from the rules are:

Ship size:
1st Rate (100+ guns): 80% of standard
2nd Rate (80+ guns): 90% of standard
3rd Rate (70+ guns (64+ for Dutch built)): 100% of standard
4th Rate (44+ guns): 110%
5th Rate (24+ guns): 120%
6th Rate (everything smaller): 125%

Rigging damage:
Below first limit in total rigging points (2800, 2500 and 1350 for 1st-3rd, 4th-5th and 6th rated ships, respectively): 90% of undamaged speed.
Below second limit in total rigging points (1800, 1500, 350): 80% of undamaged (with some caveat that I don't understand).

Other issues:
Fallen masts: Loss of 30% of speed for each of the first two.  With no masts a ship will only drift to leeward.
Dragging a mast: 90% of normal speed.
Critical hull damage (0 or 1 hull points): 70% of normal speed.

The rules are not entirely clear on how these various percentages combine.  I assume it's a multiplication for everything except multiple downed masts.  So a 1st rate (80%) with 1900 remaining rigging points (90%) and only 1 hull point (70%) would move at 0.8*0.9*0.7=0.504 or about half of the speed of an undamaged 74 at the same point of sail.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 29, 2009, 10:25:22 pm
Ah yes, I remember that graph, I thought it looked like a MRI of someones head.
And I remember you like math more than I do.  :)

Guess I'm out of luck unless someone puts that into a handy chart.
How many parameters would that be:

ship size
wind speed
course compared to wind direction
rigging damage
sea conditions

Hmmm, maybe a chart wouldn't do it. Clever fellows those masters & commanders.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 29, 2009, 10:50:36 pm
Excellent post, BlckKnght.

Yes, "it's a multiplication for everything except multiple downed masts".

Well, I don't hope anyone learns all the modifiers and calculate his own speed. I do not do myself. But I think it is useful to have a rough idea of how a ship's speed is modified.

Just knowing:

- smaller vessels are faster.
- each mast reduces speed by almost 1/3.
- 0/1 hull reduces speed the same a mast does.
- magic numbers: 2800 and 1800, reduce speed.
- Dragging a mast reduces speed.

Well, that is all I vaguely consider playing.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 29, 2009, 11:10:30 pm
Ok Mx.

I was going to let it pass, but this is ridiculous. I think you said I would catch Conquant quickly. Considering my sail pts are 2600 vs 121, I would agree. That was 2 or 3 Plays ago.

It takes me 2 plays to swing far enough to bear guns. She is moving W. 200 yards per play, so I'm out of optimum range before I can fire.

The problem I disagree with is if you look at her movement 60% of it is West perpendicular to the wind. I don't believe that a ship of the line with only 121 sails pts. could move like that. I say it should be 95% downwind.


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 29, 2009, 11:39:57 pm
You should manoeuvre to bring your port batteries into action. If you try to use starboard batteries you will add distance between you and your enemy, even if your enemy stops.

As we saw on BlckKnght post, your enemy has a potential 32% speed. You have a potential 81% speed, that is more than double speed. Your enemy is sailing large, with the best wind. If you turn left, you lose wind and open a divergent angle between courses of both of you.

If both of you sail in same course you will approach at 81-32 = 49% speed.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 30, 2009, 12:27:14 am
Yes, I just decided to try from the top side, which is why I'm swing the other way. Some of us are a little slow.  :)


Ok last post on this, then I agree to disagree.

I would agree she has the potential for 1/3 speed if her numbers were 000- 900- 000
(although that would be straight downwind, not on a reach with she is).

But her numbers are not that, they are 000- 121- 000.

Either those missing 779 points mean her mast is damaged so she can't carry the regular amount of sails or it means her rigging is damaged, so she can't carry the regular amount of sail or it means her sails are damaged
or it means all of the above.


Therefore she shouldn't have 1/3 speed. It should be much less than that.
If those 779 points don't count for anything real in loss to the effectiveness, then they are meaningless.



Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Enero 30, 2009, 12:39:23 am
I don't believe that a ship of the line with only 121 sails pts. could move like that. I say it should be 95% downwind.

While I think my friend Pellew is underestimating the ingenuity of my maneuvering to avoid him (:P), I strongly agree with the point he made here in such a vibrant color.

Changing tacks and sailing against the wind should be much harder for ships with significant damage, either to their rudder or to the rigging.

If a ship had significant damage to it's foremast (such as the foretopmast being carried away), the unbalanced forces on the sails would cause a strong tendency to turn upwind and a lot of lee helm would be needed to counteract it.  It would be almost impossible to tack because the jib (which runs on a stay attached to the foretopmasthead) was essential to get the ship turned away from the wind to pay off. Similarly, if the mizzen was badly damaged it would be very difficult to turn upwind and the ship would need to carry a lot of weather helm to go straight.  Trying to come about in that situation would almost certainly result in missing stays.

A ship that had significant damage to any of the running rigging on any sail would face great trouble if it tried to switch to the opposite tack without at least temporary repairs having been completed. (As I recently learned from Wikipedia, the order to splice the mainbrace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splice_the_mainbrace) derived from one of the most difficult repair jobs that might be required of the bosun's crew in the midst of battle.  After completing it they would earn an extra ration of grog.)

A ship with a badly damaged or destroyed rudder should be unable to turn anywhere near to the wind, though by sail settings she could probably still turn enough to bring the wind onto either quarter.

[edit, in reaction to Cpt. Pellew's latest]

I think another issue is that the way Velmad handles masts falling is a bit strange: The first mast to go is the easiest, then each subsequent one is requires more damage to knock down.

It would seem to me that the reverse is more mechanically accurate, as losing one mast would tend to badly mess up the stays and braces that support the other masts.  If the whole mainmast went down on a ship it could easily take the fortopmast or the whole of the mizzen with it.

The oddness of the current system is mitigated to a certain extent by the fact that if you've just lost a mast you are probably already stuck in a position where your enemy can keep on shooting at you, bringing down the others eventually.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 30, 2009, 01:43:23 am
Pellew, your enemy lost 2 mast, that is 30% + 30% penalization. That makes 40% potential speed. But she is also under 1800 rigging points so she has a 80% of her potential speed. That makes 80% of 40% = 32%.

I agree that is strange that we only consider (for this ship class) the 2800 and 1800 limits. So a ship with 2799 has 90% of her speed. A ship with 1801 has also 90%. A ship with 1799 has 80%, and for example a ship with 500 has also 80% if she didn't lose any mast.

This was made in order to make Velmad simple enough to calculate speeds in your mind, and to apply this to a miniatures velmad version.

So I was thinking about rebuilding the rigging points system. We could assign each mast 100 points (100%). Then assign each mast a different propulsion force. We could even consider each part of the total 100% points a part of the mast. For example, 25% gallant, 25% topmast, 50% mast or 30%,30%,40%. Then when a ship lost 25% in one mast we suppose she lost her gallant...

Well, that is a simple damage allocation system, I know, but we could not track every single spar and sail if we want maintain the game simple. Anyway, we can always improve the game. I prefer making steps in the right direction, slowly building up the game, than suddenly changing all, including a milliard of concepts and variables, and finally realizing we built an unplayable monster.

We could calculate speed multiplying (foremast points * foremast propulsion force) + (mainmast) + ...
Or speed could be calculated, half like line before, and half by numbers of mast alive, or any other combination. For example, in our actual model, if a ship has only one mast and only 1 point it doesn't mean that mast has not sail at all. When a ship goes to 0 points in one mast, that mast falls. But a mast doesn't fall when it has no sail, it probably will fall long before that.

Each 1% point of each mast will have some damage cost, depending on ship class. For example a 3 decker main mast could have a cost of 13 damage points per 1%, her mizzen mast 10... So you will need 13 rigging damage point to take out 1 point of that main mast, and 10 damage points to hurt 1 mizzen mast point.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 30, 2009, 09:55:34 am
<<Well, that is a simple damage allocation system, I know, but we could not track every single spar and sail if we want maintain the game simple.>>

Believe me, I can take a lot of simple as long as it simulates a ship.  ;)
And by the way, I like the word milliard, I had to look it up in the dictionary.

Ok, I didn't know about the differnt break points, limits, at 2800 & 1800. Its a good thing you mentioned it; for the next play I was going to throw a midshipman tied to a chicken cage over the side every 10 minutes to see how fast they drift.

I understand now, and I think that is the problem. I was looking for incrimental loss, instead of in stages.

So while your new system is way too complicated for my mind to understand, I like what I think you are saying about each mast starting at 100% as a multiplyer. Then damage is subtracted from that and then the new number is multiplied by the propulsion that mast has to get how much power that mast is providing for the ship.

Is that sort of what you are saying?
Just say yes. :)

Maybe this equation will help; I worked it out while I was brushing my teeth.  8)


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 30, 2009, 10:05:32 am
By the way Bick, my commendation to your sailing; I didn't know who was skippering that ship. You certain lead me a merry dance for far longer than I was planning on spending to take out a measly 250 pts of mast.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 30, 2009, 01:44:29 pm
Is that sort of what you are saying?
Just say yes. :)

 :D Yes.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 31, 2009, 01:07:25 pm
When a ship has been dismasted, we have no towing, yes.
If they have many guns, is it possible for another ship to push them around to point their guns?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Enero 31, 2009, 04:37:46 pm
No. I have no account of any historic case like that. Probably it happened but no significantly.

Towing would be nice to implement. But not to enter in combat.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 31, 2009, 06:43:27 pm
Oh, I wasn't thinking about history.
I got the idea when Bick collided with a hulk and when he pulled off he turned the Duc all most 70 degrees.
Both in Trafalgar & here have hulks that still have plenty of gunnery left.

Do you think it can done without getting collision points?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Febrero 02, 2009, 06:34:58 pm
Cita de: Game 199, turn 57
The Le Jason crew, exhausted, need more time to load starboard

I'm rather confused why the French ship Jason keeps failing to fire when ordered.  The fatigue of this ship is well under 100%, in fact, after her crew decided that firing a raking broadside was too much effort, it's now just 40%.  A few turns ago they skipped a previous shot leaving them with 60% fatigue.  The crew quality is Normal.  Recent shots have had much less effect that I expected too, which makes it seem like the game is using some different and much higher fatigue level.

As I understood it, the message about needing more time to load comes up only when an ordered shot would have no possible effect on the enemy due to very high fatigue.  Is that really what is happening here?  How is it that my ship cannot do any damage even with 50% fatigue?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 02, 2009, 07:49:23 pm
I was suprised seeing that because she has not been in combat recently.

1. the crew may not have been taking their anti-scorbutics and have scurvy, which saps the strength.
2. if it a union boat, the crew may be on a 15 minutes break  :D

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 02, 2009, 10:47:54 pm
I think you were shooting so far away to windward, were you trying to shoot to the hull?

Maybe we should let firing always, or with less equal 100% fatigue, even if there is no damage, just considering no shot hits the target. I agree, It makes no sense seeing "exhausted, need more time to load starboard" when a ship has 50% fatigue!!!

So if you agree, I could change it to let firing always or <= 100% fatigue.

Maybe I could add somewhere on the interface, the shooting minimum and maximum expected damage. Well, this is anti for of war, but if it helps making the game more enjoyable, then I will go for it.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 05, 2009, 10:07:34 pm
WHEN THE HULL GOES TO 0 AND THE MOCKINGBIRD SINGS IN BARCKLEY SQUARE


1. the sails go to No sail
2. the speed drops to 0
3. does the ship sink the following turn?

We may need further consideration about rigging damage effects, hull damage effects, sinking, and oh yes, how late to allow dancing on the forcastle in the summer time.

I have read that for SoL sinking was rare except from explosion or storm; even fire would burn to the waterline leaving a floating hulk. Note that in Trafalgar, of the many devistated ships, I think all that sunk did so in the following huricane or were scuttled by the prize crews, rather than directly sinking from battle damage. Maybe a better option than sinking at 0 hull, would be incapacitated like 0 sails.

 
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Febrero 06, 2009, 01:26:40 am
WHEN THE HULL GOES TO 0 AND THE MOCKINGBIRD SINGS IN BARCKLEY SQUARE

1. the sails go to No sail
2. the speed drops to 0
3. does the ship sink the following turn?

Actually, none of these happen.  Each turn a ship is at 0 hull there is a 10% chance that she begins to sink, but otherwise she can still operate close to normal.  The lower deck of guns is not available, due to the water that is gradually flooding the ship, but if the crew works extra hard at the pumps (costing 20% fatigue) the carpenter and his mates can patch the worst of the shot holes and restore 1 hull point (at which point all guns are available).  Those repairs are only possible if the crew's fatigue is not more than 100% already.

Citar
I have read that for SoL sinking was rare except from explosion or storm; even fire would burn to the waterline leaving a floating hulk. Note that in Trafalgar, of the many devistated ships, I think all that sunk did so in the following huricane or were scuttled by the prize crews, rather than directly sinking from battle damage. Maybe a better option than sinking at 0 hull, would be incapacitated like 0 sails.

You're right that wooden ships were hard to sink.  Velmad models this pretty well, as I think we're seeing in game

The other ways ships can be destroyed in Velmad is by a hit on the magazine or a fire that burns out of control.  Both of these can be cause by critical hits. According to the rule book, critical hits are caused only by shooting round shot at less than 300m.  The odds of a critical hit are 1% when a ship is at >2000 hull points and damage/100 when there's been more damage.

For each critical hit, the odds of hitting the magazine is 1% per gun of 24 lbs and 2% per larger gun (plus 1%, so even a light ship has some chance).  All other critical hits just cause a level 1 fire.  There's an increased probability if the ship is at 0 or 1 hull, but I'm not sure if that makes all critical hits more likely or just magazine hits.

It would be very interesting to add scuttling as an option for a captured ship, since you can sometimes take an ship that you won't be able to hold.  It would probably need to take quite some time to do properly though, since all of the ship's original crew would need to be transferred to other ships (I'm not aware of any historical cases of captured crews being burned with their ship).
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 06, 2009, 08:03:04 am
BOARDING CHART UPDATE

I know there have been upgrades in the works about boarding. If you are current could you tell me what needs to be changed?

http://www.box.net/shared/65ynl7ve6o#1:18157818:221882482 (http://www.box.net/shared/65ynl7ve6o#1:18157818:221882482)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Febrero 06, 2009, 09:23:33 am
It would be very interesting to add scuttling as an option for a captured ship, since you can sometimes take an ship that you won't be able to hold.  It would probably need to take quite some time to do properly though, since all of the ship's original crew would need to be transferred to other ships (I'm not aware of any historical cases of captured crews being burned with their ship).

Yes but, that happened after the battle, not during it  :-\

I think Velmad ships never must sink unless by a result of a critical hit in the magazine or a fire out of control  ::) , the sinking by flooding was almost always after the combat and it took much time  ::) , enought to happen when the battle is already over.

I am with Pellew in that it would be a better solution to keep the hulks without flag, adrifting as if they had been dismasted. Finally the winner side will have their control to seize them rescuing their crews or destroy them. I am often have proposed a ship out of action instead of sunk. A ship out of action doesn't do anything but difting so she remanins in battleground and every ship has to avoid them or she will collide with her  ::) . A ship in this state could have a white flag shown independently of her old owner due to her critical situation (in process of sinking) and in signal of distress  :-[
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 06, 2009, 06:33:50 pm
<<the carpenter and his mates can patch the worst of the shot holes and restore 1 hull point (at which point all guns are available).  Those repairs are only possible if the crew's fatigue is not more than 100% already.>>

In my book, if you start out at 3000, by the time you are at 100, the carpenter is reporting "3' in the well and rising sir" and at zero, "get the men into the boats, Lieutenant." For me, zero should mean 0.

Repairs would be done when you are at 100, at zero you're helping the gunner's wife & the ship's orangutan into the blue cutter.

But then for consistency and ease of learning, I would use a 0-100 point scale for most things hull, sails, Fatigue, morale, etc. with different multipliers depending on the size ship and the particular variables of that item. That way no matter what size ship or what item, if it is 100, you're A1, at 50 there is concern, and at 20 you have a critical problem.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 06, 2009, 08:10:53 pm
Hull points don't refer to exact hull tables remaining nor exact hull status. I don't like the "live points" system (you have x live points and when you have no live points you are dead). It is just a simple way to measure damages, but no giving a exact amount. A ship with 3000 hull is in some way "assured" to resist 3000 damage points, but that doesn't mean that after exact 3000 damage points her hull is destroyed and can not resist any shot. That the reason I don't put a 0-100 hull system because that system is like saying 0% to 100% and everybody will consider 0 as no hull at all.  :o

I'm considering changing to a 0-100 system in rigging but I'm not sure about hull. Someone suggested long time ago to change it to damage received. So ship hull will start at 0 and will grow as she receives damage. This way there is no psychological limit valour, there is no 0 to reach, none will think "oh, she is at 0 hull, she is totally destroyed, she must sink".

Many things in Velmad were designed in order to be simply and easy to learn and remember. Also I tried to design it like a miniatures game. Now as time passes we are more into computer game and so we are improving velmad with more formulas since none will make calculus (computer will make them  ;D) and if we design a miniatures version, it will be computer assisted or a simplified velmad game.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 06, 2009, 09:33:02 pm
That the reason I don't put a 0-100 hull system because that system is like saying 0% to 100% and everybody will consider 0 as no hull at all.>>

But that is just what everybody does think; that at 0 you swim with the fishes.
My guess is that a broadside usually puts the ship well over the limit and they sink, so this doesn't come up so often.

Just like my other situation where this same ship was fighting Conquerant (now floating quietly with no masts) at that time swinging her 70 guns with ease and almost sailing as fast as I was at pv even though she had only 2 sail points. To me, it is confusing.

AS I have complainned so much on these 2 issues (even though I am correct  :) I am going to have mercy on you and wait till next week to post my next Something Must be Done About...


What do you tell yourself when you are in a bad position. The other ship is so close you have only 1 way to turn and every thing you try, she keeps an angle on you where she fires and your guns can not bear.  Do you mental give up on your ship or do you die slowly every play as you see the hull & guns grow smaller fewer and fewer?

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 06, 2009, 09:38:20 pm
What do you tell yourself when you are in a bad position. The other ship is so close you have only 1 way to turn and every thing you try, she keeps an angle on you where she fires and your guns can not bear.  Do you mental give up on your ship or do you die slowly every play as you see the hull & guns grow smaller fewer and fewer?

I say "this is a bug, something must be wrong!"  :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Steve Martin en Febrero 10, 2009, 02:42:20 am
I am not sure if this has ever been brought up or not, but its something that is causing me a little concern right now in my situation in game 180.
Is it possible to fire off a broadside without targeting any specific vessel, in order to rid yourself of an inappropriate load out currently in the guns.  In effect, Clearing the Barrel.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Febrero 10, 2009, 04:28:33 am
Hey Steve,
I asked the same question a while back - No there is not - You must have a target in order to fire : (

But, Munrox has noted the problem and has acknowledged that you should be able to "clear your barrel" so hopefully it will be an option at some point

Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Febrero 10, 2009, 08:19:16 am
Absolutely good answer sir. Thanks so much Brendan ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Steve Martin en Febrero 11, 2009, 04:20:25 am
Well I am glad that it is at least on the table.  The better answer, of course, would have been...
" sure, you just target the open stretch of ocean and double click and you will fire off the guns "

Not helping my current situation, but I will make the best of it.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Peon9 en Febrero 19, 2009, 01:13:32 am
It doesn't work after turn 60 due to reduced visibility  ;)

In other case, it could be possible see the positions of ships behind the dark or mist  :o

Don't worry.  :)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Febrero 19, 2009, 08:30:15 am
I've tested some time ago this feature with mist and it didn't work my friend... well, it DID work because I couldn't see a single bit of screen...  ::) ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 24, 2009, 05:30:14 pm
I have a couple of comments for the English speakers:

1. when the general comments/answer thread gets overly large, the Spanish forum starts another one with a different tittle, but then someone invariably keeps writing in the old one so then you have 2 general comment/answer threads. As this one is up to 19 pages, I was thinking we could archive it and start a Q&A 2.0 or Questions & Answers 2009.

2. FYI, For those of you who are addicts, and not merely enthusiasts, you do know that the "action" is in the Spanish Forum messages. Most of the topics appear there first, sometimes a day, sometimes several days earlier than here, most of them have more lengthy and detailed discussion; some never make it over at all; for instance, did you know there are After Battle Reviews of conduct & performance! I got raked for my performance in 1st of June (I think part of it was a misunderstanding of flags and part of it was deserved) fortunately a division commander spoke up for me.

I want to be clear, THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT. I understand that most of the players are Spanish & the English forum is an addition. Even the amount translation that is done now, is a lot of extra work for them.

I know, because trying to go the opposite direction: translating, reading, writing, translating, posting in the spanish forum is a pain in the butt for me, but if you want more information & sooner, sometimes a different perspective, sometimes things that just never make it over at all, then we who are language challenged have to make an extra effort.

[if any wants to exchange pointers on Internet translators, we could start a different message on that] 
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mendo en Febrero 24, 2009, 06:04:41 pm
I I got raked for my performance in 1st of June (I think part of it was a misunderstanding of flags and part of it was deserved) fortunately a division commander spoke up for me.

Hei Pellew, sorry but the comments were on the Brunswick's performance, nothing personal against you  8) , moreover, I finally agreed to take out the "tick" for judgement, that is... you're absolved  :) ;)

And that's true, some of us try to come here from time to time, to keep English forum updated, but it's a lot of work and is gonna spoil our private lifes when added to the time spent in the spanish one, sorry  :-\ :( :'(
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 03, 2009, 08:33:22 pm

game #245/ t17
duc de bourgogne vs robust

1. duc has robust in red Target, but will not lock on. (I need to attack, so will hold move)

2. FYI also been having some difficulty bringing up Info popup box (have to hunt with cursur inside box to get hand to appear)


(ediit- I found 1 corner edge of red target box that would respond to mouse over.)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 03, 2009, 09:00:24 pm
It is due to smoke images (a problem reported in the spanish forum too). I will add it as an option in the left side menu. So if someone has some problem in one turn to click on a ship he can disable smoke graphs and active it later.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 03, 2009, 10:48:51 pm

game #245/ t17
duc de bourgogne vs robust

1. duc has robust in red Target, but will not lock on. (I need to attack, so will hold move)

2. FYI also been having some difficulty bringing up Info popup box (have to hunt with cursur inside box to get hand to appear)


(ediit- I found 1 corner edge of red target box that would respond to mouse over.)

The trouble is that the new smoke images are drawn over the ship and cover up the area you need to click on.  You can have similar issues when several ships are in near proximity, as the image area of two of them might overlap the whole image area of a third, even if the ships hulls are not overlapping.

WARNING: Amateur web programmer advice ahead.

I think Munrox could solve this by adding a small transparent images over the top of each ship that would trigger the ship's mouseover and click behaviors.  The transparent image could be layered over the smoke and ship images (using the "z-index" CSS property or by drawing it later), so that you could click on it even if the ship was within a thick bank of smoke or rubbing up against several other ships.  If the images were smaller than the ship image is (half?), they'd not cover each other up as much, leaving enough room for clicking and mousing over.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 03, 2009, 11:50:50 pm
WARNING: Amateur web programmer advice ahead.

Don't excuse or underestimate you, overlapping layers and clicking, collision layers is a common technique and actually your advice is a very good advice.

I don't want the page to grow in excess as most of the content is pre created on server, only the info windows are created on client. But I think it is the fastest way to fix the problem so I'll follow your advice. ;)

We have also a limitation in the number of image hits a server attends per day. This is a problem in the future as we'll continue adding graphs, for example the wakes we were talking about. Maybe at some point It will be necessary to change the model, creating more content at the client side and/or offering graphics packs to install in player's computer.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 12:42:40 am
We have also a limitation in the number of image hits a server attends per day. This is a problem in the future as we'll continue adding graphs, for example the wakes we were talking about. Maybe at some point It will be necessary to change the model, creating more content at the client side and/or offering graphics packs to install in player's computer.

I'm glad my transparent image idea wasn't totally foolish.  Hopefully it won't consume all that many image hits, since if you use a single image (1x1 pixels, scaled appropriately) it should be cached by the browser.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2009, 01:16:06 am
Yes, we depend on browser cache!  ::) or the big battles would be so much consuming. That's also the reason why we try to use the same graph for many ships, same for light or medium sail, not drawing dismasted ships, and some time ago, the same ships for both sides (now we have different hulls colours.)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2009, 02:22:54 am
From a conversation we had on the spanish forum about allowing a ship to shoot half battery to a target and the other half to other target, I answer that could be possible when friendly fire or damage to more than one ship (ships partially hiding the target) were implemented. Then I was asked about an approximate date to it. The conversation followed and I gave a list of some of the new features and modifications planned for v1.4.

We still don't have v1.3 ready yet so I didn't post the list for v1.4 but as I've given a partial list in the spanish forum I think I should post it here too.

In no special order:

- hiding information (fog of war)
- friendly fire
- coast
- reduced vision or malus to shooting through persistent smoke.
- anchoring
- boats and other minor units
- some modifications to combat system (cannonade)
- ship sinking appearing in the map and so on
- damage to near ships when a ship explodes
- improvement of collision system (at least its damage)
- revising some critical shots, applying its effects when they don't work correctly, fixing some bug and modifying some other critical shots (dead/injured captain, rudder damages, fire damages, propagation of fire to close ships, substituting or increasing some other critical shot,...) 
- shooting to open sea (to allow reload or to hide into smoke...)
- historical flags.

This is the list I posted. It is not a closed list. To this subjects we can add the bigger features/projects I talked about sometimes before:

- strategic game
- dynamic scenario battles
- battle player (to watch all the turns of a battle in a "film" way)
- 3D project
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 04:12:08 am
Munrox, can you tell me why I'm not able to liberate Le Duc de Bourgogne from L'Evielle in game 231?

I have the option to grapple, as I have had the last three turns, but not the option to board.  On two of those turns I did try to grapple, once with success and once without (the third turn I made sail instead).

Le Duc has no sails set, 120% fatigue and -2 morale. L'Evielle has 80% fatigue and 9 morale.  The two ships are now 19m apart, facing the same direction.

I've mostly been ignoring the various quirks and frustrations of the game when I've seen them recently (such as 20+ turn pileups of ships).  I only stop to ask about this one because I'm concerned that if I don't retake my flagship this turn the game is going to end, since twilight is setting in and my one possible broadside may not go off due to distance and fatigue.  Plus, it doesn't make any sense!

By the way, the list of upcoming features looks very exciting!
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2009, 02:56:32 pm
Le Duc de Bourgogne moral is 0 or less (-2). Ships in this situation can not be boarded if they are under 75 metres from a captor ship. Next turn it should be abordable when London raise England flag.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 04:35:24 pm
Le Duc de Bourgogne moral is 0 or less (-2). Ships in this situation can not be boarded if they are under 75 metres from a captor ship. Next turn it should be abordable when London raise England flag.

Ah, I see.  That makes sense, I guess.  It is very frustrating though, since I am not actually able to board for two reasons.  The first is that L'Evielle collided putting it's fatigue over 100% (again).  The second is that Le Duc's prize crew raised sail and is now under way.  Recapturing friendly ships is really difficult, I've found, because they have no need to save their fatigue.  So even if they are colliding every other turn, they can keep right on making sail and they'll often get away before you can grapple and board.  Earlier in this game I found the only way I could recapture these prizes was to block them in with the prizes I'd taken myself.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 04, 2009, 05:43:58 pm
Mx- NEED HELP WITH TARGET LOCK BEFORE I CAN PLAY TURN

battle 244
AMerica can't target Duc


1. I can't find a working spot on this target even though there is no smoke on it.

2. did smoke off button get installed?

3. Yesterday I had one target with a small blue square on it, was that an experiment?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Marzo 04, 2009, 05:58:50 pm
My friend, try to get used to be more precise hehehe. Which battle, who's trying to fire whom... you know, that kind of stuff so Munrox can put an eye on it ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 04, 2009, 06:29:26 pm
Bick illustrates the point that the situation with prizes is unrealistic.

In 1st of June watching a divisions move around a battlefield like a mother goose followed by her trail of gossling prizes looked silly and there are places in Trafalgar where there are more prizes in an engagement than fighting ships.

The biggest difficulty is the 525 meter Rule. Instead of moving off towards a friendly port or at least sitting still for the rest of the battle, in my reading I have come across few cases where a prize crew was overthrown, so it seems strange to make it such a prominant rule.

The difficiulty with the idea that they have to stick around because they were frequently retaken, is I believe historically that happened on the 1-3 days after the battle, so it doesn't really apply to our situation.

1. The present situation inteferes with the movement and firinng of the remaining fighting ships. 

2. They also create another serioius problem. There is the temptation to use these useless annoyances in inappropriate ways like football blockers or to collide them into enemy ships to raise their fatigue points. Again, this would not be such a problem if they either could be removed from the battlefield or left to sit by cancelling the 525 Rule.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Marzo 04, 2009, 06:44:28 pm
Mx- NEED HELP WITH TARGET LOCK BEFORE I CAN PLAY TURN

battle 244
AMerica can't target Duc

Edward Pellew...¿are you sure you do speak of these two ships? I can't even imagine how could America shot at Duc de Bourgogne... maybe it was Adamant?

...There is the temptation to use these useless annoyances ...

These "useless annoyances" not only give your fleet 2000 points each (if I remember the figures fine), but also rips off the enemy's score the points she has acquired up to that moment ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 04, 2009, 06:46:12 pm
Thank you. :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Marzo 04, 2009, 06:49:49 pm
...does it mean it was Adamant? hehe ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 06:50:08 pm
2. They also create another serioius problem. There is the temptation to use these useless annoyances in inappropriate ways like football blockers or to collide them into enemy ships to raise their fatigue points. Again, this would not be such a problem if they either could be removed from the battlefield or left to sit by cancelling the 525 Rule.

I've thought of an idea that might limit the ability of prize ships from behaving in unrealistically aggressive ways:

When the ship's fatigue is greater than 100%, a prize crew cannot adjust it's sail setting from no-sail to light sail.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 08:12:25 pm
Well, my other championship game ended and I'll be content with the results.  I do find it frustrating how the game can end even when there is still some action going on:

Cita de: Game 231, Turn 75 report
The Eveille hooks the Duc de Bourgogne

The Robust boards the Europe releasing its crew and recapturing it!

The Europe remains entangled with America

The America remains entangled with Jason

Game Finished

I was certainly going to be retaking le Duc on the next turn, if there was one, and I'd put even odds on capturing Europe again within two or three after that.

Can the end of game check be extended to consider boarding and grappling actions in the same way it does cannon fire?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2009, 09:06:20 pm
Can the end of game check be extended to consider boarding and grappling actions in the same way it does cannon fire?

Yes, it should be extended to consider that actions, it makes no sense to finalise a game when last turn you boarded a ship and partially conquered its decks but still not surrender (and now that could happen).

When the ship's fatigue is greater than 100%, a prize crew cannot adjust it's sail setting from no-sail to light sail.

I like ideas in that direction. Now fatigue of a captured ships is that of her original crew, not the new crew. We could change that or think some other rules similar to this.

Edward Pellew, retake prizes is not as easy as it could seems. So there is no necessity of fleeing them miles apart. As far as I know that is not historical. Prizes used to stay near her captor, just behind line of battle, or near auxiliary ships, ..., sometimes towing them. I have no notion of a battle with lots of prizes fleeing from battle in all directions and each one alone. Of course if you have some text about it I would be very happy to learn from it.  :) Please, don't miss understand my words, you don't need any text to make any suggestion or give any opinion, all are welcome and analyzed. I just mean I cannot change prizes behaviour with all my information against it. Well, I can  :D but I mean I will feel bad about it.  :-\

We can eliminate 525m rule but then we will have battles with players fighting till the last ship, with many ships fleeing around in all directions, in fact all the remaining ships will be fleeing as they surrender. That is very annoying. Of course we should avoid this in a better way and not with an artificial 525m rule. But meanwhile I think 525m rule makes the work.

I see players too focused on retake a prize (that will surrender again almost immediately) in place of fighting her captors! In the best case, prize will be 120% fatigued and your ship will also get fatigued while the captors will shoot both of you.

We could allow shooting to a prize, as a warning or to the rigging to catch her. Historically, a prize alone would surrender with any warning shot, even if she is really alone she would surrender if any enemy ship is coming.  In Vemad we apply 525m rule even if no enemy is near the prize.

The problem allowing shooting to prizes is we would have all the people doing it, even sinking their own ships before enemy get them. Moreover, if we make a prize surrender after a warning shot then we will have prizes continuously been retaken/taken.

We already count enemy ships near, friends ships near, division chief near, admiral near, admiral captured, how the battle is going in the zone (number of enemy prizes, number of our prizes), and so on, into the surrender roll.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 04, 2009, 10:16:01 pm
Can the end of game check be extended to consider boarding and grappling actions in the same way it does cannon fire?

Yes, it should be extended to consider that actions, it makes no sense to finalise a game when last turn you boarded a ship and partially conquered its decks but still not surrender (and now that could happen).

There are some other issues with multiple turn boardings.  One is that if the boarded ship had given a (delayed) order to make sail on the first turn, they will not be boardable the second.

Another is that if the attacking ship goes over 100% fatigue while holding part of the enemy's deck, the fighting can't continue (presumably the boarders row back to their own ship for a nap :P).

While it would certainly be possible for a boarding action to be broken off part way though, I don't think it should be the norm.  Perhaps the boarding action should even continue by default (automatically being selected on the game screen)

Citar
When the ship's fatigue is greater than 100%, a prize crew cannot adjust it's sail setting from no-sail to light sail.

I like ideas in that direction. Now fatigue of a captured ships is that of her original crew, not the new crew. We could change that or think some other rules similar to this.

Perhaps the ship's fatigue should be reset to some fairly large value each time control changes (so it would represent the prize crew's fatigue when the ship was captured).  Say, 140% + 20% per extra turn of fighting on her deck.

Citar
We could allow shooting to a prize, as a warning or to the rigging to catch her. Historically, a prize alone would surrender with any warning shot, even if she is really alone she would surrender if any enemy ship is coming.  In Vemad we apply 525m rule even if no enemy is near the prize.

Actually, this could be a very interesting direction to go.  First, allow the shot to be taken but only at relatively close range (300m?).  Don't let it cause any damage or casualties (it's just one gun across the bow, demonstrating that the broadside can be brought to bear).  The ship will be retaken by the original crew only if there is no ship of the prize crew's nationality within some other small distance (perhaps also 300m, or "closer than the shooting ship").  If there is a sufficiently nearby ship the warning gun will have no effect.  With this new way of recapturing ships in place, the current rule about crews retaking their own ships could be relaxed somewhat so that the prizes could get a bit further out of the way, say to 1000m.  Boarding of prize ships would still be possible, just as it is now.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2009, 11:10:35 pm
Edward, Adamant can target Duc with her bow battery.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 05, 2009, 05:41:09 am
Here is an image from 1st of june with way too many prize ships going every which way because they are worried about the 525 Rule.

The number 1 priority of a prize ship should be staying the heck out of the way of the ships that are still fighting for their lives, which mainly would be staying in one place. If they can move off the battlefield without getting in the way, and then stay in one place, so much the better. Instead I've seen them trail around & around & around like yapper dogs, trying to keep up with the ship the captured them.

I finally gave in (in a private match) and started using them as blockers to delay the enemy allowing  my fighting ships to get into position. But I've seen them used much more actively in ranking games. Its crazy, you might as well let the start shooting!

I will keep saying, until you understand; whatever problem the 525 Rule was made for, it is creating a bigger problem .

PS thank you for the fix on targeting; it is a close battle and I am way behind in the other one.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Marzo 05, 2009, 08:13:20 am
The number 1 priority of a prize ship should be staying the heck out of the way of the ships that are still fighting for their lives, which mainly would be staying in one place. If they can move off the battlefield without getting in the way, and then stay in one place, so much the better. Instead I've seen them trail around & around & around like yapper dogs, trying to keep up with the ship the captured them.

Yes my friend. That's what it should be... but don't you think there is a problem with it and doesn't have much to do with the game?

The problem is we the players. I don't think Munrox can do much if we don't play following a "logic of battle". I mean,

I finally gave in (in a private match) and started using them as blockers to delay the enemy allowing  my fighting ships to get into position. But I've seen them used much more actively in ranking games. Its crazy, you might as well let the start shooting!

I will keep saying, until you understand; whatever problem the 525 Rule was made for, it is creating a bigger problem .

I don't think this is a way to go. I mean that we are adults enough to not keep saying the same on every post thinking someone will give us something hehehe. I mean that, if "keep saying" is keep adding reasons and reasons ok because if it is possible to find a way to fix anything with everyone's help, then it is great but being anything else...

Thanks so much my friend hehehehe. I think the way to go meanwhile should be acting as an example and trying to give ideas about how to protect prize ships during the battle... plus not recovering them in the middle of the action because you will do it with HIGH fatigue values and the enemy will be able to retake them gaining another morale point and making you lose another one... as an example: HMS Thunderer in Trafalgar's bicentenary game. A ship we have surrendered three times if I'm not wrong ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 05, 2009, 02:09:38 pm
I see your point Edward. Of course using prizes as a football (USA) defence team make no sense and it must be fixed.

But the problem with prizes in many places in battle is not an easy one. Again, as far as I know, they actually were there. They didn't flee as soon as they surrender. In a big melee battle, prizes are in middle of the battle. In Velmad we have some problems, usually we make so much prizes as we like to fight to death.

For example, in current Trafalgar battle we see as english fleet is winning at west and centre, but they are dangerously fighting in the east. We can see as allied ships are forming a battle line to the east and have a serious advantage there.

In a real battle "probably" the allied fleet would continue forming line and slowly fleeing from battle. English fleet would assure prizes and take the rest of ships at west and centre trying to intercept some fleeing ones.

In Velmad I'm pretty sure we will see how the allied fleet will tack to counter strike and british ships attack the enemy battle line cashing against it when they already have the battle in their hands.

I know it could seem annoying prizes all over the battle moving following some other ship, but imagine that same battle with prizes fleeing in all directions as soon as they surrender. We will have a small battle in the middle with the 3 or 4 remaining ships on each side and as sun rays, lots of prizes fleeing.

In historical Trafalgar, prizes didn't flee to Gibraltar as they surrender. Non english ships pursue to death to the vanguard french ships fleeing or the rest of allied ships as they retreat under Principe de Asturias.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 05, 2009, 02:54:19 pm
Wish, well I wasn't planning on talking about this every post, that would be boring even for me. :)
I guess you haven't notice there are plenty of issues I have given up on or even withdrawn the post.

1. but I've seen this very odd battle field situation for half a year without any solution being tried.
You've got to admit that picture from 1st June is bizarre. And in Trafalgar I just got through getting hit by an enemy prize, but right after that I got tangled up in a friendly prize.

2. One thing I'll mention quickly is that it seems Mx and you think I am against prizes or their points. I'm not at all, I don't know what I said to give that impression.

    * In a "pre-battle" reunion, there should be a plan defined for prize ships. They're a good amount of points important to save a win
    * In this reunion there should be a reunion point marked plus some kind of ship selection to protect them

(I think you mean pre-battle planning, yes? Reunion is getting together 10 years from now to remember our arguements about battles that ended 200 years ago) :D

3. I agree, I have thought that strange that admirals didn't establish a plan, maybe with wounded ships to watch over a convoy of prizes.

4. I heard something last week about the US financial crisis that made me think of this.
An advisor to the new administration was talking about how the whole mess happened it the first place. And he said there were two problems, one was personal ethics (which you were talking about).

But he mentioned a second thing, the system's rewards. The bonuses of the financial managers were based on short term goals of how much money they loaned every quarter & year, NOT on how many of the loans they made were good loans made to qualified people at rates they could afford to pay back all the way. Their bonuses were for shoveling the money out the door, so that's what they were doing. It wasn't for actually making good loans.  So the managers were responding to the poor incentives that were established for them.  

To bring it back to our situation, instead of penalizing prizes for trailing around the battlefield, the 525 Rule almost makes it necessary. I have never understood what was special about that rule that no one talks about changing it  ???


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 05, 2009, 03:31:56 pm
To bring it back to our situation, instead of penalizing prizes for trailing around the battlefield, the 525 Rule almost makes it necessary. I have never understood what was special about that rule that no one talks about changing it  ???

Who knows, maybe it is a magic number?  ::)

 So the managers were responding to the poor incentives that were established for them.

I agree, so I try to encourage (incentives) in the "good" direction. For example, captured ships lose their points, so players should try to be not captured. Capture/recapture/capture/... only helps the captors to get more morale while captured ship lose morale.

We could go farther, if necessary, reseating captured ships points, so that recapture a ship doesn't mean 10.000 points.

Recaptured prizes have so high fatigue that they are not very useful for some turns so I don't see recapturing prizes as a priority in battle, just another option if you have the opportunity to do it. It is more important saving the rest of your ships from be captured than letting some of your ships to be captured in exchange of recapturing some others.

We could maintain surrendered prizes (not boarded) with white flag (no flag) till a small boat takes possession of them. For example, any enemy ships at <300m could send a boat (invisible) clicking on the prize ship. That would send men to take control of ship like now. But maybe this won't help as much because everybody would like to take control of the ship for her points, so we should give preference to the ship that surrendered her and that player won't renounce to take possession of the prize.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 05, 2009, 07:21:36 pm
I am reading while the British are reloading.

I will read your posts & think about it.
I don't want to be difficult. (where is the smiley face with a halo)
Título: Re: Q&A Dragable boxes
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 09, 2009, 07:09:33 pm
Mx. on most programs, Information popup boxes are dragable. I don't think there are any dragable boxes in Velmad.

1. Do they cause a conflict or have you not gotten around to using them yet?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 09, 2009, 08:05:50 pm
It is just because of time to implement it and because of increased size of web pages associated to it. (more code)

I feel it is not a top priority, it would be nice to have them but I don't think it is useful now. What window do you wish to move?

We could change most of the interface basing it on floating windows, it would be interesting, but it is a bit painful to have it redone. I don't discard it anyway, but then we have also the opportunity to make it flash based.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 27, 2009, 10:18:57 pm
Munrox, is there a reason that in game 5129 I'm not able to liberate Guerrier from Conquerant this turn?  My fatigue is down to 90% and I'm 61m away, with both ships stopped.  There is an enemy ship parked pretty much on top of Guerrier, but it's not the one that caused the original surrender (there has been no boarding).

Speaking of surrendering, I've had amazingly bad luck with the morale rolls in that game.  I've had three of my four ships surrender, with morale ratings of 9, 8 and 6.  The ship with 9 morale had knocked down a mast of the enemy who fired on her, so after surrendering her morale actually went back up to 10.  With modifiers I think the odds were a little bit worse (-2 for the first one and -1 for each of the others) but still, this run of bad luck is appalling.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 27, 2009, 11:46:53 pm
I'm not sure what game number you refer to. Maybe that ship is at 0 or lower morale. In that case if there is a ship under boarding distance from her, it is not possible to board and recapture her.

Yes sometimes luck is again us, so a player requested to show surrender rolls because he though he always lost his rolls. Now rolls are showed but some players request to hide them.  ::)

We don't apply morale points earned or lost in current turn in order to make turn order irrelevant. We consider last turn conditions (except morale dropped in current broadside) to make current turn run simultaneously for all ships.

Modifiers are quite important. I think we use to underestimate them. Just -1, -2 or -3 can sentence a ship this or next turn, while a +1 or +2 can save her and let her escapes.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mendo en Marzo 27, 2009, 11:55:26 pm
Hehehe BlckKnght, it's battle 224 and you won't be able to recover the Guerrier, IT'S MINE NOW  ;D ;D

There is an enemy ship parked pretty much on top of Guerrier,

Yeah, as it's impossible to unhook them, now they are having some fun in order to breed small brigs which will grow up to become future 1st class men-o-war  :D :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 28, 2009, 12:22:55 am
Sorry, I see now, the problem is that Guerrier is up to 10 morale again (as you said) so she is not boardable.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: BlckKnght en Marzo 28, 2009, 02:22:16 am
Sorry, I see now, the problem is that Guerrier is up to 10 morale again (as you said) so she is not boardable.

But surely the high morale of her original crew should make her more likely to overcome a prize crew (with help) rather than making it impossible.  Furthermore, since I can't shoot her, there's no way her morale will ever go down.  Is this something that can be fixed?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Abril 01, 2009, 04:18:31 pm
See last turn map

For at least 2 weeks when I try to look at that map I get a cheat attempt.
1. are we not suppose to look at that or is there a glitche?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Abril 01, 2009, 04:30:03 pm
Is it Finisterre? or, is it further than turn 60? In any case visibility is reduced and thus, there is not a chance to have the "last turn map"... at least not yet ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Abril 02, 2009, 03:36:36 pm
Ok, it is trafalgar and T60 matches up to about when I couldn't access the page. The Cheat Attempt seems to be a catch all error message, rather confusing.

1.I have been have been doing well in trafalgar since the darkness started to fall, so I'm not in a hurry to end, but I'm curious how much longer it will go. Is the hyper-fatigue activated?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 02, 2009, 06:17:14 pm
Yes, hyper-fatigue and extra morale dropping is rules are activated.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Abril 04, 2009, 06:12:09 pm
Greetings,

In game 254 we are now at turn number 85 and even though there have been a few turns with no shots fired, boardings, etc the game has not ended....?

Not sure why it has not ended
Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 04, 2009, 06:46:24 pm
Has any admiral marked to no continue combat?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Abril 05, 2009, 01:30:02 am
I have not - not sure how ...

the other side of this championship game seemed to end automatically....

I must be missing something

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 05, 2009, 02:41:21 am
In the message page of flagship you can select continuing fighting or breaking.

When one side selects breaking combat, turn is 60 or more, and there is no shooting, then game finishes.

If both sides select breaking combat, then next turn the game finishes.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Abril 06, 2009, 10:01:48 pm
Ahh - Thank you very much

Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Abril 09, 2009, 05:04:55 am
Munrox,

I've noticed that when trying to tack, I only succed about 25% of the time. Fat, morale or speed doesn't seem to have much of an effect. What is the chance of failing an attempt to tack? It seems that a ship with no or minor damage should tack successfully about 99% of the time, not the 25% I seem to be having.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Wishgamer en Abril 09, 2009, 10:41:13 am
Wulfe, don't count the times your ships misses a mast. If I recall it well, missing one mast frobides you to tack. Also fatigue and crew's experience have an impact on it if I'm not wrong... maybe too many green crews, exhausted and without masts? hehehhee
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Abril 09, 2009, 03:07:29 pm
I don't even try when I'm missing a mast. What set me off was Pluton in game 287. No fatigue, excellent morale and vet crew. Failed to tack???? That should be almost automatic in thaat condition.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 09, 2009, 07:00:06 pm
#287 is deleted   ::). So I cannot give you a better answer.  :-\

When entering 15º from wind a ship will pass a 100 dice roll to know if she is successful. If she fails, she will turn one point away wind. The result must be under the next limit.

* Limit begins at 90.
* For each wind force level from level 5, limit will decrease -10.
* Crew quality affect this way: green -10, normal 0, veteran +10, elite +20.

Ships without a mast will fail automatically.

When tacking fails and in the turn before ship wasn't trying to tack, then there is 50% chance of maintaining course and 50% of turning one point away wind as in general rule.

This 50% chance represents not a failed manoeuvre but a delayed, slower, less precise one. In next turn, ship will success tacking or fail dice roll again turning away wind and effectively failing to tack.


What was the wind force?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: wulfe en Abril 09, 2009, 07:17:59 pm
Sorry, game #267. turn 23 or 24 or 25. wind force 2
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 09, 2009, 09:57:34 pm
Force 2 -> -30%

Veteran -> +10%

Total = 90 - 30 + 10 = 70% of success.

The wind is so weak so it is difficult to talk. Historically, when wind was so weak ships sometimes needed help of boats to tack.

Anyway you should have 70% chance so it is strange you fails so much times.  ::) I will take a look.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Abril 18, 2009, 03:24:25 am
On another topic -


Books!  I recently read a good book called Six Frigates by Ian Toll - basically a historical account of the founding of the United States Navy - a lot of politics but covers the major naval "battles" of that period

Interesting to learn that many of the names for the streets where I work in the Bronx New York were named after the famous captains of that first navy - ie Decatur, Bainbridge....

Anyone have any recommendations for good books about the Age of Sail??

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Abril 20, 2009, 07:13:49 pm
If you like the small ship actions try The Star Captains about famous Brit frigate actions http://www.amazon.com/Star-Captains-Frigate-Command-Napoleonic/dp/1557508712 (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Captains-Frigate-Command-Napoleonic/dp/1557508712) . Another good one is Teddy Roosevelt's The Naval War of 1812 http://www.amazon.com/Naval-War-1812-Modern-Library/dp/0375754199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240247481&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Naval-War-1812-Modern-Library/dp/0375754199/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240247481&sr=1-1).

TRs book is actually  available free online through Archive.org. http://www.archive.org/details/navalwarof181200roos (http://www.archive.org/details/navalwarof181200roos)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Abril 20, 2009, 11:52:04 pm
Thank you very much Aaron!

Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 21, 2009, 01:52:11 am
You can also find another great classic book on google books or archive.org: The Naval History of Great Britain 1793 - 1827 by William James. It is a six volumes work. It has some errors and James is not very impartial, but anyway is a great classic and reference work.

You can also read it here:
http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval_History/Index.html

Maybe I should post a list of books (as a bibliography) used as reference to develop Velmad and its scenarios.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Abril 21, 2009, 01:46:33 pm
My pleasure. I popped "Royal Navy" in the search box at archive.org and came up with a couple of months worth of reading.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Abril 21, 2009, 07:28:57 pm
Good. If you find some interesting data, text or some book specially useful, please tell us. :)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Abril 22, 2009, 01:06:20 pm
You may want to try some Spanish language searches there. I know there are a lot of non-English books there also. I found this one right away which seems to be comparing Trafalgar and Santiago de Cuba: http://www.archive.org/details/trafalgarysantia00mullrich (http://www.archive.org/details/trafalgarysantia00mullrich) and one that appears to be a Spanish history of the battle http://www.archive.org/details/historiadelcomb00coutgoog (http://www.archive.org/details/historiadelcomb00coutgoog). If I see anything that looks up your alley I'll be sure to post it.

I did find an English translation of Benito Perez Galdos' novel about Trafalgar which sounds interesting.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mendo en Abril 22, 2009, 07:28:09 pm
Thank you Aaron   :-* :-*

I was looking for this book (2 years ago)  in Spain and as result:
- 1 copy was in Seville
- 1 copy in Madrid, at a non-public library (CSIC, "High Conseil of Scientific Researchers" ) and not available for general public.
- 3rd copy in Madrid, which I could read in the "Ortega y Gasset" library. (NOT to take home to read).
- 1 digital copy in Madrid also, only available to be read in a library PC.

It is about British taking (and plundering  :'( ) Manila in 1762. When they arrived, Manila's citizens did not even know that were in war  :o :o :-\

http://ia351425.us.archive.org//load_djvu_applet.cgi?file=0/items/sitioyconquista00librgoog/sitioyconquista00librgoog.djvu
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Aaron en Abril 23, 2009, 01:00:54 pm
I thought the English knew it wasn't cricket to attack without asking first.  ;D I wish my Spanish was good enough to tackle it. That sounds like a fantastic book.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Mayo 09, 2009, 11:50:00 pm
Greetings,

I'm in the "world Championships" against both Pacheco and Hoboken ( 1 v. 1 v. 1 ) and was wondering how someone advances? Is it the top score among the three players - or top two scores?

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Mayo 10, 2009, 06:03:46 am
Sorry, I forgot editing that thread in the international forum.

One player will pass to the next round, that who wins his both games.

If each one of the 3 players in a group wins 1 game then we will calculate each player's score summing his points and subtracting that of his enemies in both of his games. The two players with highest score will play another game between them (changing sides), and then we will use their 2 games as in an ordinary eliminatory to decide who passes.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Mayo 10, 2009, 06:24:19 am
Thank you

Sounds fair to me : )

Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 18, 2009, 07:35:14 pm
Greetings,

I have one situation which I'm dealing with now and would like to make a suggestion -


In a game where a ship, because of it's bearing against a force 5 or higher wind, can only fire it's upper deck guns because the lower deck heavy guns are below the water level - still suffers the same fatigue penalty as if it fired it's entire broadside

I understand that 'fatigue' is not just the physical exertion of firing the guns but also the disorder, smoke etc but wouldn't it be fairer that such a ship not suffer the entire fatigue penalty ?

Thanks
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 18, 2009, 08:03:21 pm
Yes, something similar happens when only half broadside is fired.

In your case, it could be a problem if only 5% fatigue was applied. If you sustain a fighting against other ship in that situation, you could fire some consecutive turns, always with only your upper battery. If we apply only 5% because lower deck guns don't fire then your upper deck guns would be shooting continuously suffering half penalization.  :-\

Of course, if you only fire one turn in that situation and then veer and can use your lower deck guns, you would be penalized in exceed. But I think this is preferable to the other case if we think that some work is needed to close lower deck's ports, withdraw guns and secure them, and later open ports again, and move guns.

We have this problem because it is a global value. We should have a value for each deck, or for each half battery in each deck.

Another problem is that currently the game uses integers for fatigue values. They move from 0 to 20, but we show them multiplied by 10, from 0 to 200. So the basic unit is 1 (10%).
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 18, 2009, 08:04:28 pm
That is a good point... however, because of the strong winds the crew should make an extra effort to handle the rigging. This may justify the full penalty.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 18, 2009, 08:08:43 pm
Good point Mingonomou. Maybe even guns' crew should make an extra effort if deck is over inclined, like moving guns up a slope.  ::)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 18, 2009, 08:13:36 pm
That is a good point... however, because of the strong winds the crew should make an extra effort to handle the rigging. This may justify the full penalty.

If there was this extra difficulty to navigate under strong winds, the extra fatigue should be applied to any ship under that weather, be it firing or not. Well, save those without sails. Anyway, it should be a penalty applied to the use of sails, not to the use of guns.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 19, 2009, 01:09:16 am
Well, yes, but that is a different question. We can also discuss if always sailing under strong winds merits further penalization (v.gr. +10% each turn, or whatever).

What I meant is that firing without the lower battery because of the wind should have the same increase of "fatigue" than a ship firing with the full battery.
As Brendan said, our "fatigue" is an abstract concept which includes firing guns, handling the rigging, actual fatigue, etc. If a ship fights without the lower battery, the remaining gun crew would be employed in other tasks, maybe in the rigging due to the strong winds or maybe moving the guns up a slope, as Munrox said, or maybe... What is sure is that this guns crew should be not free. In my opinion, that can justify the same increase of "fatigue" in both cases.

Other question/suggestion that may arrise concern the split of the "fatigue" into two factors, that are, "fatigue due to firing the guns" and "fatigue due to handling the rigg", but that most likely will increase the algorithm complexity  ::) . And still both will have large degree of abstraction.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 10:40:04 am
Well, yes, but that is a different question. We can also discuss if always sailing under strong winds merits further penalization (v.gr. +10% each turn, or whatever).
What I meant is that firing without the lower battery because of the wind should have the same increase of "fatigue" than a ship firing with the full battery.

Yes, but you can't justify the extra fatigue of firing under strong winds (or rather, the normal fatigue of firing just part of the guns) with something that affects the ships all the same be they firing or not. You must justify the penalty with something that affects the situation being penalized and only the situation being penalized . If you believe strong winds affect the effort of sailing (which is entirely reasonable), then the penalty should be applied to sailing, not to firing.


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As Brendan said, our "fatigue" is an abstract concept which includes firing guns, handling the rigging, actual fatigue, etc. If a ship fights without the lower battery, the remaining gun crew would be employed in other tasks, maybe in the rigging due to the strong winds or maybe moving the guns up a slope, as Munrox said, or maybe... What is sure is that this guns crew should be not free. In my opinion, that can justify the same increase of "fatigue" in both cases.

But then this implies that there is this number of other tasks that need to be done. If when firing part of a battery these tasks cause a 5% increase in fatigue (assuming the other 5% is caused by firing the guns), then what happens when the full battery is fired? Either these tasks are not done (which may mean that they are not important or necessary, and thus they wouldn't be done anyway, or that not doing them causes some problem, and thus has some negative effect in the ship performance; if the crew were needed for sailing with strong winds, they would have to be used for sailing, be the ship firing or not, and if they were not then the navigation of the ship would be affected) or they are done anyway and then they should cause that extra 5% fatigue, putting the total fatigue of a full broadside at 15%.

By the way, there are situations in which at least part of the crew is free. Otherwise they wouldn't recover fatigue. If when just navigating or doing moderate change of sails we assume that there is a large enough part of the crew either doing nothing or doing tasks so undemanding that they can rest, then we can assume the same of the part of the crew that is not firing their guns when a partial broadside is fired.


The only thing that really affects only the firing and only in strong wind situations is the possibility that the slope of the ship increases the fatigue of handling the guns. But this assumption presents some problems:

- It affects only one of the sides. The slope exists in both sides. One of the sides is unable to use the lower deck, but the other can still fire with the full battery. If the slope increased the fatigue of handling the guns, then firing a full broadside under strong winds should cause 20% fatigue.

- It happens only with force 5 winds and it has the same effect no matter how strong is the wind. It's logical that the lower deck only becomes unusable after a wind force limit. With weaker winds, water doesn't enter the ship and you can use the deck; with stronger winds, water enters and you can't. There are only two possible results.
  But fatigue can be increased in amounts as minute as we wish. If wind force 5 causes a slope that provokes a 5% extra fatigue, maybe wind force 4 will cause a 4% increase? Maybe wind force 6 will cause a 6%. The numbers may vary, but it's not logical that with wind force 4 you have no extra effort at all, with wind force 5 you suffer a significant penalty, and with wind force 6 or stronger that penalty isn't increased at all. If wind increases the slope of the ship and thus the fatigue of firing, it will do so gradually.


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Other question/suggestion that may arrise concern the split of the "fatigue" into two factors, that are, "fatigue due to firing the guns" and "fatigue due to handling the rigg", but that most likely will increase the algorithm complexity  ::) . And still both will have large degree of abstraction.

Oh, indeed that would be much better. And abandoning the 10 pts. increases, which are logical for the use of tables but are a too rough scale for computers. It wouldn't be difficult to model a system where you consider each time the amount of "power" required for each task, and then you demand this power from the available crew. If there isn't enough power, the task is not done or done just partially. If there is, then fatigue is attributed to the crew proportionately. If more crew is available or the task is less demanding, the fatigue increase will be lower. If there are few men still standing or the tasks are many, then they will be more fatigued. It would be a system more realistic and with less abstraction. It would have the advantage of being able to refine it as much was we wish. For instance, the power needed to fire could be considered the same no matter the number of guns fired (thus having the same problem with partial broasides as now) or it could be different depending on wether you fire a full battery or half a battery, or it can be counted by the number of guns, or it can be calculated by the number and caliber (thus weight) of the guns. It wouldn't be much more complicated to use the later system, and the results would be vastly more realistic.

The algorythm would be more complex, indeed, but possibly it would be also easier to manage. Trying to fix simple systems with additions and new conditions may be more difficult than designing and implementing a complex system. But as I only have partial knowledge of the current system, I cannot say which would be easier for Velmad.

In summary, I don't see any real-life justification for the fact that a full broadside costs the same fatigue that a partial broadside, be it when firing half a battery or when being unable the lower deck.
The only justification for this happening in Velmad is that it is easier to implement. Which is a perfectly good one, mind you; many times (although not always) realism has a cost, and Munrox must decide if it's worth the effort. If the fatige/fire is not a serious enough problem to justify changing the system, so be it.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 10:48:00 am
In your case, it could be a problem if only 5% fatigue was applied. If you sustain a fighting against other ship in that situation, you could fire some consecutive turns, always with only your upper battery. If we apply only 5% because lower deck guns don't fire then your upper deck guns would be shooting continuously suffering half penalization.  :-\

I don't see a problem with that. You can fire a few strong broadsides (full batteries but increasing fatigue quickly) or you can fire many weak broadsides (half batteries but increasing fatigue at half the rate). Depending on the situation it might be better one way or the other (as the game works, I tend to believe the stronger shots would be better), there isn't any special or unfair advantage on any of them.

Now, on the other hand, there is a clear disadvantage on firing partial broadsides: you accumulate fatigue just as quickly as with full broadsides but doing only half the damage. I would prefer a more balanced system. Just giving 5% fatigue for partial broadsides (be they without the lower deck or half batteries) would be a quick and reasonably realistic fix imho.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 01:33:06 pm
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Just giving 5% fatigue for partial broadsides (be they without the lower deck or half batteries) would be a quick and reasonably realistic fix imho.

In the case I said and you quoted, giving 5% would be a very unrealistic result.

If some crew work slowly? if 1,2,3... men die, more fatigue for the rest? if we forgot sand in port, will deck be more slippery? Or if deck is not so polished how that affect guns movement? All that could be also progressive, if gunner has conjunctivitis? And if one man work harder than another, or is stronger or took more grog, or if ... We can add "ifs" till judgement day and will not have reality yet, nor even we can always assure a more realistic result.  :-\

Of course, Velmad is a game, not reality, not even a simulator, and doesn't pretend to be. Of course it could be improved, and so it is being.  ;)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 02:34:49 pm
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Just giving 5% fatigue for partial broadsides (be they without the lower deck or half batteries) would be a quick and reasonably realistic fix imho.

In the case I said and you quoted, giving 5% would be a very unrealistic result.

Full battery 10%, half a battery 5% (half of 10%). It may not be exact, of course, but it doesn't seem very unrealistic to me. Double the effort, double the fatigue. I fail to see the lack of realism.
Full battery 10%, half a battery 10%. This does really sound unrealistic, since firing double the guns has exactly the same effect in fatigue.

In any case, I was adressing your concern about the supposed advantage that firing half-batteries would provide if they only caused a 5% increment in fatigue.


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If some crew work slowly? if 1,2,3... men die, more fatigue for the rest? if we forgot sand in port, will deck be more slippery? Or if deck is not so polished how that affect guns movement? All that could be also progressive, if gunner has conjunctivitis? And if one man work harder than another, or is stronger or took more grog, or if ... We can add "ifs" till judgement day and will not have reality yet, nor even we can always assure a more realistic result.  :-\

I don't follow your reasoning.  ???


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 02:41:33 pm
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In any case, I was adressing your concern about the supposed advantage that firing half-batteries would provide if they only caused a 5% increment in fatigue.

Maybe you were addressing a different issue because if you read my concern you will see that 5% would be unrealistic and 10% realistic.

Edited:

This was the original post you were talking about.

http://foro.spacegame.es/index.php?topic=1767.msg65668#msg65668

And I was talking about Brendan post.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 02:48:59 pm
Yes, something similar happens when only half broadside is fired.

In your case, it could be a problem if only 5% fatigue was applied. If you sustain a fighting against other ship in that situation, you could fire some consecutive turns, always with only your upper battery. If we apply only 5% because lower deck guns don't fire then your upper deck guns would be shooting continuously suffering half penalization.  :-\

Of course, if you only fire one turn in that situation and then veer and can use your lower deck guns, you would be penalized in exceed. But I think this is preferable to the other case if we think that some work is needed to close lower deck's ports, withdraw guns and secure them, and later open ports again, and move guns.

We have this problem because it is a global value. We should have a value for each deck, or for each half battery in each deck.

Another problem is that currently the game uses integers for fatigue values. They move from 0 to 20, but we show them multiplied by 10, from 0 to 200. So the basic unit is 1 (10%).

Here is your full post. There is no mention of realism. There is a comment saying:"your upper deck guns would be shooting continuously suffering half penalization.". I understood that as a concern about a possible unfair advantage for "shooting continuously suffering half penalization".

I don't see any lack of realism, since I think it's reasonable to assume that the crew of the lower deck, being without guns to fire, could help/substitute their colleagues in the upper deck, thus halving their fatigue.

The same applies to half-batteries, since the situation is pretty much the same. You point it out yourself.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 03:04:56 pm
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I don't see any lack of realism, since I think it's reasonable to assume that the crew of the lower deck, being without guns to fire, could help/substitute their colleagues in the upper deck, thus halving their fatigue.

Wrong. You can not put more men to manage a gun that are assigned. The gun team is created assigning jobs for each man and according to gun size and weigh and gun space to work. Each guy is assigned to one team.

Exceptionally men could be assigned to different teams but anyway it would be only helpful if current team has casualties. But we don't count casualties for fatigue effects. You have the same fatigue in a full team or a team with 1 men less. Moreover, if you call men from lower deck, you increase disorder and readiness due to many reasons. And if after all, all guns crew is working, then all crew is fatigued. You also should consider work for securing lower guns as I said or ammunition and powder supply.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 03:20:22 pm
Maybe you mean that you can send hundred of men up and down stairs, secure lower battery, detach men, assign men to new positions and different jobs, mix higher rank men in jobs of lower rank, put two men where only one can operate, move them along corridors full of people going and coming, guns moving, chiefs giving orders, ..., and even at the same time maintain ammunition and powder supply at an increased rate and get a performance twice of that of an already positioned and organized crew.  :o
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 19, 2009, 04:36:02 pm
In addition, I would like to recall that our "fatigue" is an abstract concept which includes firing guns, actual fatigue, handling the rigging, etc. which is indeed a very abstract concept (perhaps we should rename it as "stress" instead of "fatigue" in order to do not be confused  ::) ). For example, the crew of a ship which cannot fire with the lower battery will become more nervious, getting impatient... (I would be so  ;D; remember that there ships in front of ours firing us). And this will increase our "fatigue".

I don't see a significative improvement including %5 "fatigue" for firing without the lower battery, specially when we can committ in some contradictions.


I find a much more interesting question if sailing under strong winds always merits further penalization.
For instance



Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 04:50:57 pm
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I find a much more interesting question if sailing under strong winds always merits further penalization.
For instance

    * minimum "fatigue" = 0%, for winds force 4 or less
    * minimum "fatigue" = 10%, for winds force 5
    * minimum "fatigue" = 20%, for winds force 6

That's an interesting point, Mingonomou.

Another interesting issue is different wind shooting effects, not only windward or leeward, maybe because of waves, or adding penalization when shooting through current smoke clouds, or stress/shock when a ship is under fire and she doesn't return it, ... All of these, commented some time ago.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 19, 2009, 04:55:58 pm
Shooting through current smoke clouds, or stress/shock when a ship is under fire is ok; but I think not because of waves. Waves are generated when wind blows, therefore we can include that effect in the factors abovementioned

   * minimum "fatigue" = 0%, for winds force 4 or less
    * minimum "fatigue" = 10%, for winds force 5
    * minimum "fatigue" = 20%, for winds force 6
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 05:14:48 pm
Yes, I meant adding a penalization to shooting maybe because of accuracy (decreasing damage) but not adding fatigue, just only an idea.  :)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 19, 2009, 05:23:38 pm
Ah, ok. Now I understand. I didn't understand you.

EDITED: Well, indirectly throught the "fatigue" there is decreasing in accuracy (damage)  ::) :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 05:29:03 pm
lol, yes.  :D
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 07:16:10 pm
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I don't see any lack of realism, since I think it's reasonable to assume that the crew of the lower deck, being without guns to fire, could help/substitute their colleagues in the upper deck, thus halving their fatigue.

Wrong. You can not put more men to manage a gun that are assigned. The gun team is created assigning jobs for each man and according to gun size and weigh and gun space to work. Each guy is assigned to one team.

Then the current system is wrong. Because right now the fatigue accumulated when firing one side (or when managing the rigging, for that matter) affects the firing of the other side. Either the fatigue is counted twice or somehow the tasks and the fatigue are shared by the men of both sides.

For every and each activity of the ship currently we are assuming that the fatigue is shared, spread evenly among all the crew. Assuming the same for firing half-batteries would follow the same pattern and thus be coherent. And it would prevent obvious anomalies like having the same fatigue for firing double the number of guns.

But never mind, you have already decided that you don't like my suggestions, there is no point in debating them any further.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 07:29:27 pm
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Then the current system is wrong. Because right now the fatigue accumulated when firing one side (or when managing the rigging, for that matter) affects the firing of the other side. Either the fatigue is counted twice or somehow the tasks and the fatigue are shared by the men of both sides.

Wrong again. Men are only on one broadside of ship and only divided when shooting both broadsides that has an additional fatigue.

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But never mind, you have already decided that you don't like my suggestions, there is no point in debating them any further.

I didn't know you could read minds!  :o

But even in that case you are wrong again; I don't reject your "suggestions" because of being yours. Maybe if you try to be more constructive, your interventions would be more useful. I think you could provide many ideas for the game.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 07:32:04 pm
In addition, I would like to recall that our "fatigue" is an abstract concept which includes firing guns, actual fatigue, handling the rigging, etc. which is indeed a very abstract concept (perhaps we should rename it as "stress" instead of "fatigue" in order to do not be confused  ::) ).

Sure, but it changes nothing. Anything said so far for "fatigue" can be applied to "stress". Save if you include "situational stress", see below, which makes things worse.


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For example, the crew of a ship which cannot fire with the lower battery will become more nervious, getting impatient... (I would be so  ;D; remember that there ships in front of ours firing us). And this will increase our "fatigue".

Might very well be, but then you are going again the current system of removing fatigue. If the crew that is waiting to fire is "stressed", then they wouldn't be recovering fatigue. And if we add situational stress, then it becomes much more difficult to calculate fatigue.

For instance, you say that the crew of the lower deck of a ship firing at an enemy 600m. away in rough waters becomes "stressed" for not being able to fire, and this stress is as strong and punishing as the stress plus physical fatigue plus disorder of the crew that is actually firing.
But then, the crew of a ship being fired upon by two enemies, one in each side, at 100m., somehow manage to stay calm and not only not to suffer any "stress" but even to recover fatigue when not firing back.
Methinks the later situation is way more stressfull and would incur in much more "situational stress" than the former. And yet the current system works contrarywise.

I would say that including situational stress incurred when doing no task would further complicate the matter and would make the current system much more inadequate.


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I don't see a significative improvement including %5 "fatigue" for firing without the lower battery, specially when we can committ in some contradictions.

I don't see any contradiction. You fire X guns, you get X fatigue. You fire 2X guns, you get 2X fatigue. Sounds coherent to me.

The contradiction appears when you fire X guns you get X fatigue, you fire 2X guns and yet you get X fatigue all the same.

A change as simple as this would simply remove this contradiction. It's an improvement achieved through a small change. If it's significant enough to be done or not is not mine to be judged.


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I find a much more interesting question if sailing under strong winds always merits further penalization.
For instance
  • minimum "fatigue" = 0%, for winds force 4 or less
  • minimum "fatigue" = 10%, for winds force 5
  • minimum "fatigue" = 20%, for winds force 6

Indeed, this sounds logical. And even more, that the increase or decrease of fatigue be more closely linked to what you actually do. For instance, not managing the rigging in any way (staying with the current sail) should be less fatiguing (or more resting) that changing from medium sail to light sail or viceversa. Even keeping the current sail should be harder when having more sail deployed.

But this is an entirely different can of worms.  ;)


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 07:45:13 pm
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Then the current system is wrong. Because right now the fatigue accumulated when firing one side (or when managing the rigging, for that matter) affects the firing of the other side. Either the fatigue is counted twice or somehow the tasks and the fatigue are shared by the men of both sides.

Wrong again. Men are only on one broadside of ship and only divided when shooting both broadsides that has an additional fatigue.

You didn't understand my point.

When one side shoots, the whole ship gets 10% fatigue. Same when one side loads double shot, or when the rigging crew changes sail.

This fatigue accumulated by the firing of one side affects the firing of the other side. You may not have fired with your stardoard side for hours, but if you have made 10 shots in a row whith your port side, when you try to fire with the starboard side you will suffer the penalty of having 100% fatigue.
Thus, somehow the fatigue of one side has been "transmitted" to the men of the other side of the ship.


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But never mind, you have already decided that you don't like my suggestions, there is no point in debating them any further.

I didn't know you could read minds!  :o

I'm content with reading posts. Quite often it's enough.


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But even in that case you are wrong again; I don't reject your "suggestions" because of being yours.

It's interesting that you have interpreted my sentence this way.

In any case, what I meant to say is that you have already decided that you don't like the suggestions I've made in this thread, and thus there is no point in debating them any further.


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Maybe if you try to be more constructive, your interventions would be more useful.

Possibly what you understand by "being constructive" is not the same as my understanding of the term. I would say that my explanations in this thread constitute a very constructive analysis of the current system and suggestions and ideas to improve it. Your opinion differs; again, there is no point debating it.


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I think you could provide many ideas for the game.

The current evidence points to the contrary, one would say.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 19, 2009, 07:54:59 pm
Greetings : )


Munrox quote:

In your case, it could be a problem if only 5% fatigue was applied. If you sustain a fighting against other ship in that situation, you could fire some consecutive turns, always with only your upper battery. If we apply only 5% because lower deck guns don't fire then your upper deck guns would be shooting continuously suffering half penalization.  


I also do not see a problem with this! I think Munrox belives the ship in the above example is getting an advantage - But there is one BIG point that is not included in the analyis/discussion - When a ship only fires it's upper deck guns ( And I'm talking about a typical 64 or 74) the damage those guns inflict compared to a full broadsides is NOT 50% of a full broadside - In my experience it is more like 30% but more likely less...obviously because the 'heavy' lower deck guns are not firing...And I'm not suggesting that a ship can "Choose" to fire only it's upper deck - I'm just saying the "fatigue" penalty for only being able to fire the upper deck in high wind is not fair, equitable, logical...

Of course fatigue/disorder/stress modifier can not be modelled perfectly, and some of the discussion has gotten too exacting, but in this specific and limited case it is not logical

As an example - and it is not perfect! In game 338 the Europe has been "chasing" the Duc and firing at an angle to the Force 6 wind to suffer the "wind penalty" - finally Duc was able to return fire a couple of times - this is the result of the second exchange between them:


The HMS Europe shoots her batteries of starboard against the rigging of Le Duc de Bourgogne at leeward by port
with ammunition of bar shot at 318 m causing a damage of 6 in her hull.

damage to the rig (16):
8 in foremast, 4 in mainmast, 4 in mizzenmast.


The Le Duc de Bourgogne shoots her batteries of port against the hull of HMS Europe at windward by starboard
with ammunition of round shot at 318 m causing a damage of 173 in her hull.
1 dead and 2 wounded men
damage to the rig (40):
20 in foremast, 10 in mainmast, 10 in mizzenmast.

Now the Europe was fatigued from firing similar weak shots at the Duc for several turns - so her fatigue( at 10% per turn ; ( ) was up at ~ 70 % and the Duc is a much bigger ship ( not sure of her fatique )

The result of this entire engagement is that the Europe is heavily fatigued and did a total of 192 scoring points after firing at least 6 times and the Duc fired twice and did a lot more - I can't see her score : (

I wish I had a perfect example of this but I don't - I guess my original point was that a ship in the Europe's sitiuation is getting screwed because she's doing almost no damage and getting heavily fatigued .. I guess the answer is don't shoot !

Thanks
Brendan


Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 08:05:39 pm
Citar
You didn't understand my point.

When one side shoots, the whole ship gets 10% fatigue. Same when one side loads double shot, or when the rigging crew changes sail.

This fatigue accumulated by the firing of one side affects the firing of the other side. You may not have fired with your stardoard side for hours, but if you have made 10 shots in a row whith your port side, when you try to fire with the starboard side you will suffer the penalty of having 100% fatigue.
Thus, somehow the fatigue of one side has been "transmitted" to the men of the other side of the ship.

and what is new here?

Maybe you should read slowly as you quoted my own answer about it some post above:

"We have this problem because it is a global value. We should have a value for each deck, or for each half battery in each deck."

But of course a system like that is also wrong because one man can make a different job to another and both get the same fatigue, so we need a fatigue value for each man. But wait a moment, that is also wrong, maybe one man has more stamina, or maybe is injured, or maybe is ill, or maybe his has his right arm tired but not his left arm.

what did you discover saying that fatigue affect all ship?  ::)

Citar
Possibly what you understand by "being constructive" is not the same as my understanding of the term.

I don't know what argot or jargon you use. But for most of mortals it seems not so constructive when all you said is "that is wrong", "that is not reality", and then you explain some point and you are wrong, but you change again seeking for another point and you are wrong again, and time after time wrong, just because you can not accept you are wrong. And of course, things are wrong only because they are not implemented as you like.

Citar
there is no point debating it.

You are right, where is the point of debating something that you decided that is the universal truth? When is the last time you rectified or just move your position 1 cm? Ya, of course if you have possession of the universal truth you cannot move nor rectify. After all when I try to debate your ideas you were who said that (I and) the following institutions have magical beliefs because they have a broader view than yours.

They dont look as being suspected of having magical beliefs:

North American
Ames Lab
Boston College
Boston University
Cornell University
Florida State University
Harvard University
Johns Hopkins University
Kent State University
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Louisana State University/Tulane University Consortium
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
McMaster University/Brockhouse Institute
New York University
Ohio State University
Penn State University
Princeton University
Rice University
Rutgers University
Syracuse University
University of California, Davis
University of California, Irvine
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, Riverside
University of California, San Diego
University of California, Santa Barbara
University of Chicago
University of Colorado, Boulder
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Maryland CNAM
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
University of Wisconsin

Asian
Beijing / Xiamen Consortium
Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
Institute for Solid State Physics, University of Tokyo
JNCASR Bangalore
Kyoto University
NanoBio Research Center, Seoul National University

South American
FAPERJ

Australian
University of Queensland, Australia

European
Cologne/Bonn Consortium
Dutch Consortium
EPFL Lausanne
Forschungszentrum Dresden-Rossendorf
Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH
Grenoble
ICTP, Trieste
Karlsruhe Consortium
Leibniz Institute, Dresden
Max Planck Consortium
NEST, Scuola Normale Superiore, Pisa
Nordic-Baltic Consortium
Paris Consortium
Sabanci University (Istanbul, Turkey)
Scottish Universities Physics Alliance/Bristol Consortium
University of Cambridge
University of Leipzig

Middle Eastern
Israel Consortium

ICAM Affiliates
International School of Physics Erice

Partner Institutions
Cal Poly Pomona
Cal State Fresno
Florida A&M University
Jackson State University
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 19, 2009, 08:14:11 pm
Uh, oh....

Sorry I asked! :-\
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Raimon en Junio 19, 2009, 08:18:26 pm
Munrox, frankly, I'm amazed that you have taken a simple internet discussion so seriously and so much as a personal question. It has never been my intention or my attitude. I don't intend to continue with it, as most obviously it would do no good.

In any case, this proves my point: there is no point further debating my suggestions. You don't like them and you don't consider my style constructive. You have stated it clearly enough.


Raimon
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 08:41:22 pm
Brendan, I see your point.

What I meant is that due that we have 10% increments and fatigue affect all ship the less bad option (I don't know the english words) I think is applying 10% to shooting. Naturally, we could change it to 5% increments but at the moment we have 10% minimum increments.

Of course a ship in the case you said Brendan is so penalized, she has a very high fatigue and only used a small part of her crew. When she fired again her low battery, that crew should be ready, as they were mostly resting.  :-\

The concrete case I was talking about is when a ship fire some consecutive turns her upper deck. That crew is getting fatigue and disorder increases in that deck, her guns are heated, the ammunition and powder train suffer, ...

So when she shoots one broadside she gets 10% fatigue and in the next turn, when she shoots, she gets a penalization and her performance is reduced according to it. But if we apply 5% fatigue and she shoots 1 broadside, on the next broadside she has half the penalization, that is, she can shoot on turn #2 more guns, faster or more accurately that she should.

The problem is that if we apply full 10% fatigue then rest of crew is affected, so, as you said, we could apply 5%, but we currently only have 10% increments and in some cases like the one I said a ship could get to shoot her upper guns on consecutive turns with half the penalization, that is, with a greater performance that her upper guns get when full broadside is fired. Sorry, I don't know if I explain it clearly.  :-[

Current solution is a bad solution but I don't know if it is worth to change the system and implement 5% or smaller fatigue increments.  :-\ Maybe we could change it to 1% increments and that way we will have more options to apply in the future.

I addition I said that maybe we could consider the extra fatigue of the lower deck crew because of closing guns ports and securing guns, and then again open and moving guns when shooting again.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 08:51:15 pm
Raimon I'm also amazed, you mocked my examples and my question when debating (as you recognised), you said that my opinions are my imagination and magical beliefs, you said that I am pretentious and regrettable arrogant, and some other discrediting. I think I've been so patient and respectful and the funny thing is that when I don't shut and answer I take the discussion so seriously. Funny.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 08:55:37 pm
Uh, oh....

Sorry I asked! :-\


lol, sorry.  :D

I was answering a Ramion's post.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 19, 2009, 09:09:54 pm
Yes - I understand

And I understand your point on fatigue and the wind penalty - I big part of this 'game' is learning when not to shoot ; )

Just to change the subject - What does it mean - or really what happens to you! - if you get a "WAR JURY" symbol after your ship? 

I don't have one, just curious!! ; )

Also - Is it correct that you cannot signal with flags a captured ship?

Thanks!
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 19, 2009, 09:26:12 pm
War jury is mostly a fun thing, nothing serious. Some players requested adding a discussion after each battle when captains could be charged of acting badly in battle and then be penalised some way. I fear it could lead to discussion/flamewars among players as we saw some of them before.

I added an option to mark a ship with a "war jury" symbol. Each division leader can mark ships of his division. Admiral can mark ships of his division. The idea is marking ships that fight alone without attending to flags or other players. You know "the whole fleet sailing in some course and some ship going to who knows where".

When a ship is marked with that symbol, she doesn't get any point from the fleet's bag. She gets all her points and 1000 points from each prize she captured. The other 1000 points of the prize go to the fleet's bag. Fleet's bag points are distributed among all the ships of the fleet (not marked).

A mark can be deleted by the one who put it. So usually is a warning to some player and then it is removed. It is also a way of showing public disagreement for division leaders or a way to start a friendly (I hope  ::)) debate about that action.

Citar
Is it correct that you cannot signal with flags a captured ship?

Sorry, what do you mean?  :-[
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 20, 2009, 12:53:00 am
This fatigue accumulated by the firing of one side affects the firing of the other side. You may not have fired with your stardoard side for hours, but if you have made 10 shots in a row whith your port side, when you try to fire with the starboard side you will suffer the penalty of having 100% fatigue.
Thus, somehow the fatigue of one side has been "transmitted" to the men of the other side of the ship.

Sorry, I forgot that point. I hope that won't lead new players to confusion.

As I said some posts above, you are wrong (you will never recognise, I know  ;D). They are the same men.

When only one broadside fires, all men in that gundeck are serving that broadside's guns, and when a ship shoots both of her broadsides, men are divided in two parts, one for each broadside. In Velmad you get extra fatigue firing both broadsides because of that.

"So if you made 10 shots in a row with your port side, when you try to fire with the starboard side you will suffer the penalty of having 100%" because all that men worked together in the port side during that 10 shots. So there is no fatigue to be "transmitted", they all got fatigue together.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 20, 2009, 04:06:33 am
Greetings,

  What I mean is I tried to signal a friendly "prize" crew aboard a captured ship that was sailing too close to me to ask it to veer, but there seems to be no option to send a flag message to a friendly 'captured' ship
- actually now that I think about it I'm not sure if the ship was captured by 'boarding' or struck its colors...?

I guess the question is: Can you send messages to captured ships   :-\  ?

Thanks!
Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 21, 2009, 02:04:46 pm
Other question/suggestion...

As the algorithm it is now, a 1-decker can fire and surrender a 3-decker. Even a frigate can surrender the 3-decker, under the certain circunstances. And that does not depend on the number of decks of the two ships involved. Right?  ::)

In my opinion, should be more difficult that a ship A surrender to a other ship B with more decks which is firing to A. I said firing, not boarding. When boarding, the difference of decks is implicitely included in the number of men.

If I were the captain of the Santisima Trinidad, I could surrender my ship to the Victory of Nelson, but not to a fool frigate  ;D , even if the damage they can inflict were the same. It is a question of pride rather than damage.

EDITED: For instance,

+1CC to the ship under enemy fire if the difference is 1-deck
+2CC to the ship under enemy fire if the difference is 2-decks

The +xCC it is only for the check, not permanent.
 

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Junio 21, 2009, 02:58:38 pm
game 293/ T43

I do not understand how the computer assigns blame & damage in collisions. Barfleaur & Chichester are on the same side and from maneuvering mistakes collide; both recieve 100/40 penalties.

During the same Turn, Fr. Solide squeezes P. Caroline against 2 other ships, forcing her to collide into Solide's side. P. Caroline recieves 100/40 penalty, Solide recieves 0/0 penalty. Shouldn't she have some blame/damage from the collision?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 21, 2009, 05:00:59 pm
Yes, it is a very simple collision system I hope we could improve it soon. I think it is not necessary a very complex system but a better would be very welcome.

Now, all ships that collide and move (or try to do) get fatigue (40% or 60%) and 100 damage points.  On the other side, all ships that collide but have no sail (don't move) get 0% fatigue and 0 damage points.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 21, 2009, 05:30:07 pm
Mingonomou, interesting idea.

Pellew also talked about the dishonour of surrendering to a very inferior enemy ship. He suggested letting the player select the enemy ship. It could be a good idea but I fear that players would select to never surrender to certain players or surrendering to a friend of them. After all, I'm not so sure that a captain had many options to surrender. He surrendered his ship and waited till an enemy boat come.

So I prefer to make it an automatic decision, letting the computer decide as now. But of course we can improve the way the computer select which ship gets the prize.

I we always give the prize to the bigger ship then maybe they could have so much advantage stealing prizes of smaller ships.  :-\

What I like about Mingonomou's idea is that smaller ships could surrender bigger ships.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 21, 2009, 05:47:26 pm
Brendan, ahh, yes, it is annoying, you need to use number flags and all that. Well, you can refer to ships of your fleet because they all had a way to be identified but with enemy ships was more difficult.

Anyway I think it is better changing it so we can signal easily as with other ships of our fleet.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Junio 21, 2009, 09:44:05 pm
Si, that is my question. Why did Solide not receive any penalty?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Junio 21, 2009, 11:54:13 pm
If she was sailing she should recieve it, otherwise it is a bug.

But was she maybe at no sail? Or maybe put no sail this turn?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Junio 22, 2009, 07:19:12 pm
1) I believe Solide was at MV but it is too late now.

2) a captured ship is unable to communicate either by signals or voice.
Sometimes other ships don't seem to be aware of what is happening to a Prize.

The main thing a Prize wants to say is, "HELP!"
Is it a complicated programming change to give them communications?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Mingonomou en Junio 22, 2009, 07:27:16 pm
I'm the captain of HMS Dragon (also involved in the multiple colision). The Solide was at MV.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Junio 29, 2009, 02:39:30 am
LOGIN

Has there been adjustment to the ship's  login system? Today for the first time, when I login, I get an Expired Message. I tried closing the brower, then reopening before logiing into the game, but still got the same "time expired."
I thhink this morning I finally had to logout of my user acct. on my computer & backin, then  login to Velmad.

I just came back & velmad is giving me velmad is not letting me in again.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Brendan en Junio 29, 2009, 09:24:30 pm
This has happened to me several times recently also -

After attempting several solutions I've had to just wait to login and eventually it works ; /

Brendan
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 02, 2010, 07:23:52 pm
I have the window fully expanded and scrowled all the way to the left, but the Move projection of my ship, Ardent, goes off the window. I can't see if I'm headed straight for a slower ship.

Would it be difficult for the Command Window to open centered on the ship it is controling, rather than (I don't know what they center on).

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 02, 2010, 08:28:04 pm
There are no more ships (visible ones) to the left so the window doesn't scroll. There is some space from the last ship to the left but I can give more if you think it is in need of.

Citar
Would it be difficult for the Command Window to open centered on the ship it is controling, rather than (I don't know what they center on).

It is supposedly centered on it.  :-\  I know that rarely happens but it is a browser related issue (browser does it), I can't do anything about it.  :(
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 05, 2010, 09:39:24 am
battle 436

I DEMAND ANSWERS  ;D ;D ;D
I understand a low score, BUT this is ridiculous  :o

The San Genaro shoots her batteries of port against the rigging of Le Aquilon by starboard
with ammunition of round shot at 558 m causing a damage of 0 in her hull.
damage to the rig (0):

Genaro has most of her guns and cause 0 + 0 damage? Maybe she could carry tourists at night on the Seine.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 05, 2010, 01:23:23 pm
Maybe your press gang went into a pacifist manifestation... so much grog, I suppose.

San Genaro has rookie crew, fatigue at 70 (I suppose 60 when shooting last turn), maybe also some shock? Few guns are fired by a tired and bad crew in a gallery full of smoke. We take the 0 damage as missed shots.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 05, 2010, 09:25:50 pm
No shock, only 1 ship fires backk at the same distance.
Fatigue is high, but 60 pts is not terrible.
I just don't understand 0 + 0 score,
From 35 guns, not one could hit the target at 550 m.
That does not seem right. I think maybe statistical aberation.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 05, 2010, 10:51:09 pm
It just a mathematical issue. If we reduce damage with distance, fatigue and crew quality, then we can get a 0 on one side of the interval (even on both sides). Of course we can modify the algorithm in a way that we can get some damage as a basis, but is it realistic? Should we get a minimal damage at 60, 80, 120, ... fatigue? Where do we set the limit? Then differences between crew qualities, fatigue levels, distance or number of guns could be indirectly diminished. So maybe then we complain about it.  :-\

There are many games where a dice roll result in a table shows a missing shot/no damage. I don't like it so in Velmad we use to get some damage points when shooting. But it is also possible missing most of the shots or just only hitting not important places, shots not penetrating hull, ... I think we can consider the 0 + 0 case as an example of this.

By the way, 550m is not a short distance. In real life, the probability of hitting a 1m x 1m target with a 24pdr at 400m in perfect training conditions on ground is 12%. At 600m is 8%. (Jean Boudriot, volume IV, page 133). Imagine it at sea, in battle conditions (smoke, disorder, ...) and shooting as quickly as you can.  
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 06, 2010, 06:37:42 pm
Thanks for the extensive response.
I don't want to go round & round about different approaches (well maybe a little bit)  ;D
I will iterate that I am not enthusiastic about fatigue being a major component in accuracy, considering there is mainly 1 person, the gun captain, who is responsible for aim, and he would be the most experienced on the crew.

1) <<Imagine it at sea, in battle conditions (smoke, disorder, ...) and shooting as quickly as you can>>
Yes, although we don't know what the training level was of the testers, but putting that to one side, that is a single gun. Now multiply those results by 35x for a broadside.

2) Also why would we use 1x1m.as a target, as if we are only aiming for the captain on the quarterdeck? The area of the ship that could sustain significant injury: guns, masts, rigging, wheel, etc. must be 100x larger than 1 sq. m.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 06, 2010, 09:33:20 pm
It was a test about guns accuracy trying to control all the conditions, so they used a 1m2 target. If my memory doesn't fail me, maximum shot deviation was 6 or 7 m from target. It will be increased due to ship/sea movements, aim errors, wind, visibility, ...

I agree with you in many things. For example, all of the games I know of or have in my mind right now give a better accuracy to better crews, they usually simply give more power or fire (more inflicted damage) per broadside to better crews. The difference use to be abysmal to a point that an elite British SOL is superior to any foreigner 3-decker. Of course it is unreal, if it was real then British fleet wouldn't need to use aggressive tactics, they would only need to fight a traditional parallel battle and smash their enemies (as happens in most of those games). There are many historical examples that we could talk about.

As you said, in a allied 74 of 650 or more men you only need 37 experts in gunnery, of more than 1000 in a allied 3-decker you only need around 55-60. For example, in many games you could see ridiculous broadside results by a 140 guns Stma Trinidad just because of her supposed bad crew.

There are also wrong (in my opinion) concepts as the initial broadside that many games rely on. The initial broadside give great bonus and many games even have an initial port broadside and an initial starboard one. Simplifying things I think we can accept what the initial broadside tries to model, but in realistic terms it is long far from Velmad that also simplifies things.

Then we have myths like the 3 to 1 rate of fire. If that were true then the British fleet should had smashed many enemy fleet that they didn't. There are many points against this myth, but the main point in favour, that explain that British crews were expert that practised gun shooting anytime and that allied crews were landsmen that spent all their time on port, is false. The real thing is that most of British SOL rarely practised gun shooting and that allied crew practised gun movement/reload on port.

About aiming and accuracy, I think there was not an important advantage from British over allied. Allied crew had veteran gunners (even from recent battles as from Finisterre to Trafalgar) and especial gunners corps to cover gun chiefs jobs. For example, we have the crew relations for the Spanish ships on Trafalgar, and which jobs were in need of crew and how many inexperienced crew was enrolled to cover them. Even in that extreme situation, with Spanish crew shortage and an epidemic in the south of Spain, we can see that apparently things wasn't as bad.

The real big advantage of Britain was the higher number of experienced sailors and a better promotion system that give them a bigger number of good captains and officials. Also allied had good captains and officials, but at the same time they promoted incompetent or inept ones.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS (labels)
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 12, 2010, 08:00:37 pm
1) when you mouse over a ship there is a yellow label that appears with it's name, which sometimes changes to a speed readout.  I have noticed it is often different than the one in the popup Info box. Which one is more accurate?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 12, 2010, 10:31:30 pm
The one in the info window is the current speed. The one that appears in next to the name is the prediction for next turn, you can see how it changes if you try different courses or sail settings (not in delayed mode).
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 13, 2010, 05:26:17 pm
casualties #436

The San Genaro shoots her batteries of port against the hull of Le Guerrier by port
with ammunition of grapeshot at 164 m causing a damage of 133 in her hull.
Disabled guns: 1 x 36 pounders from port bow
2 dead and 7 wounded men
damage to the rig (8):
2 in foremast, 2 in mainmast, 4 in mizzenmast.
0 dead and 0 wounded men

why are there 2 different figures??
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Febrero 13, 2010, 05:42:13 pm
One because of 133 hull damage, and the other due to 8 rigging damage.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 17, 2010, 05:37:54 am
EDB take a look at the attachment,
without any headsails or foremast (or much of any mast)
would you think it possible for Aquilon to sail on a beam reach like this?
(look at main image of Aquilon, she is heading due S. with no... sideways drift, while the wind is heading ESE 1/2 E.)

oh ya, you're in this battle ... heehee, take a look at your screen.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: EDB en Febrero 18, 2010, 01:09:03 am
EDB take a look at the attachment,
without any headsails or foremast (or much of any mast)
would you think it possible for Aquilon to sail on a beam reach like this?
(look at main image of Aquilon, she is heading due S. with no... sideways drift, while the wind is heading ESE 1/2 E.)

oh ya, you're in this battle ... heehee, take a look at your screen.

Well any SOL with just a mains'l and spanker is not going anywhere fast!  The sail can be braced around and the spanker can be used to help steer so that she could sail on a beam reach, sure. The wind state plays a role here, in light wind a SOL like this with maybe 15% sail area will sit there and wallow around. I think in this situation the wind is force 4-5, which should give some movement.


Eric
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 18, 2010, 06:14:04 pm
ok, not what I was thinking obviously, but I'll take your word on it.
Now if I could prevail uppon you for just a minute more, I've got some knees and scantlings I'm not entire pleased about ...
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Gálvez en Febrero 21, 2010, 05:08:31 am
 I haven't been able to move in about 3 days, I hope that you guys are all in the same situation ...
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Febrero 21, 2010, 06:42:43 pm
Denial has been in & out, so if I tried 2-3 of times over an hour I've gotten in.

Glad you're back, this is really becoming a nail biter. It looks like a few mistakes has given the momentum back to you. I may have to bring out the secret weapon, HMS Pinafore, painted in sea camo, she lies just over the horizon.


Título: order of ships
Publicado por: edward pellew en Marzo 04, 2010, 06:37:19 pm
1) the scenerio library page for each battle has a list of ships; how is that order decided?

2) The LineofSail we see when a battle starts is usually different. How is that order decided?
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Marzo 04, 2010, 06:58:06 pm
The line of sail of each battle is the historical one (as far as we could know). The order in the scenario library page corresponds to the order in which ships were added to the scenario when the designer created it. I try to follow always the line of sail order, but some other designers maybe don't care or maybe we needed to modify something here and there.
Título: Re: QUESTION: options of admirals
Publicado por: edward pellew en Mayo 14, 2010, 07:44:01 pm
which of these options are available to admirals for a Ranking battle?
are there any other choices?

closed forum for planning
wind speed/direction
location of fleets to each other
location of ships within each divions
special visibility
non-standard ending

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 01, 2010, 04:12:42 pm
Fleet page

For example, in the last column, what do the three, two, or one star mean??
What does the ribbon & medal mean??
Who assigns those.

is anybody reading these?
who's in charge here?
I want a lawyer; I demand a lawyer!
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Pepcock en Septiembre 10, 2010, 11:37:35 pm
Hi edward. Let's see if I can help you.

INFO SCREEN
   
1 yellow star with the ship name                                Admiral
1 pink star with the ship name                                   Divisional Chief
1 yellow star with the ship guns number                      Three decker commanding ships
1 pink star with the ship guns number                         Three decker ships without command
1 yellow star on the far right of the ship                      Normal crew quality
2 yellow stars on the far right of the ship                     Veteran crew quality
2 yellow and one pink stars on the far right of the ship   Elite crew quality

FLEET SCREEN
   
1 black cross with the ship quality column                    Normal crew quality
1 pink star in the ship quality column                          Veteran crew quality
2 pink stars in the ship quality column                         Elite crew quality

I have no idea about the ribbon and medal meaning. I will try to find an answer A.S.A.P.

You will notice that pink star with the ship name has two answers (Divisional Chief and Three Decker ships without command). That is exactly what I have found in the spanish forum so one is wrong. Unfortunately I am not playing any game right now and I cannot find out which one is the right one.

About the post before, an admiral has just two or three options to choose between. Those are Martial Courts, Combat disengage and the 2x option. But again, I am not right now in any game and I can not assure it.

About a lawyer......I don't know any one, sorry, I can't help you  ;) :P

If you have any doubt (my funny english may lead to some ones) feel free to ask for explanations.

EDIT

Yellow medals show a calculation of ship performance regarding with her auction cost and related to cost/performance of the rest of the fleet ships.

Dark medals show a calculation of ship performance regarding her own class. This information appears in every battle and may point out experience earned by this ship crew.

About admiralty options, my explanation was fine, but it should be added that Divisional Chiefs may also tick ships for martialcourt.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 11, 2010, 05:39:21 pm
 
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
IMHO, many of the Velmad pages could use a key (a chart that explains what the different icons or symbols mean that are used on that page). They would save countless Searches and the same forum questions being asked over & over.
The keys could either be right click popup or drop down from the Help Column of the Navigation Menu. Oh wait, there is no drop down navigation menu.   ::)

Pepcock sounds strangely British for a Frenchman.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 11, 2010, 05:48:12 pm
I agree. Sometimes just waiting with the mouse over an icon makes the job.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 11, 2010, 06:37:04 pm
Ah yes, the o'l point & wait  ;D
But that isn't working on any of the symbols on my Info Page  ???
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 11, 2010, 07:02:59 pm
You are right. I think it is fixed now.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Pepcock en Septiembre 11, 2010, 10:13:29 pm

Pepcock sounds strangely British for a Frenchman.


Would Pepcocq sound better, maybe more french?  ;D ;D ;D

Well, when I registered at Velmad I tried to use my name, but unfortunately I found an................. ..USURPER. Someday I will demand this man an apology for not having waited six months more before registering himself.  ;D :P.

I don't know whether "building a laser..." or challenging him with a Velmad battle... :D


Pepcock
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 14, 2010, 08:38:31 pm

If anyone is intested in the issue of the computer awarding the wrong ship a Prize in Aboukir, I made an english post here:

http://foro.velmad.com/index.php?topic=3771.msg90759#msg90759 (http://foro.velmad.com/index.php?topic=3771.msg90759#msg90759)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Pepcock en Septiembre 15, 2010, 03:46:41 pm
Hi edward.

It is a delicate question. I am sure that Mx is trying his best about this issue but it is a difficult one. I think that I am not wrong if I say that almost everybody have found himself in the same situation sometime. I can remember this matter happening to me at least once. On the other way, I remember just the opposite exemple. Fortune tends to balance herself.


EDITED

Many factors influenced in the claim of a Prize. My knowledge about it is barely scarce, but there are players who know much about this period of time naval battles. Maybe they may help with more ideas.


Increasing the range would increase the number of claimants. Who would then get the prize? In this ocasion, one of your ships would earn it, but in another battle, your ships, having pounded the prize ship at close range would have to forfeit it in benefit of a newcomer maybe firing at long range.
I would like a fair solution too, but it is not easy at all.

About a referee. That is another complicated issue. I wouldn't ever apply, of course. Who would apply? Too much work and headaches.

Eventhough, you are right. It is not fair losing a prize after having pounded it. Let's hope that Mx comes to the solution.

I know that it is not much help, but I understand your upset.


Pepcock
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 17, 2010, 08:09:01 pm
<<almost everybody have found himself in the same situation sometime>>
I mean no disrespect, so let us say not I, but a hero might say, If everone has found themself in the same situation, maybe that is a sign that it is time for a change  :)


<<About a referee. Who would apply? Too much work and headaches. >>

Yes, much work, hopefully interesting work, observing the entire battle not from the view of a ship, but from above all, like that glorious being... an admiral. And to match this awe inspiring position the Referee would recieve a share in the loot from both sides.

   As far as awarding a prize is concerned, this discussion is an artificial situation because of a previous choice that is questionable. We are talking about the limitations of a computer's understanding because it was decided to take the decision of surrender away from captain's and give it to the computer. That is the error from which we suffer. A captain has no problem in knowing who has been most successful at demolishing his ship and he surrenders to that captain.

So the question is, why was this huge change made?
   Well, some captains would fight their ships too long until they were hulks or sunk. Countries do not like cowards, but on the other side, they would rather repair a ship and have it fight again, than have it at the bottom of the ocean. The answer is to increase incentives & penalties for sinking your ship, help the man make the right choice, not take choice away from him.

What if a captain purposely surrenders to the wrong captain?
        Well that does happen, but that could be one of the duties of the Referee, to discuss questionable decisions, something you can't do with a computer choice.

Trying to select the proper incentives & penelties to illicit a certain response has alway been the bain of bureuacracies and parents.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Pepcock en Septiembre 17, 2010, 10:31:10 pm
Hi edward

I must admit that you have solid arguments. The 300 meters rule has been cancelled. The best way to know if it works is just trying it, so we have the opportunity...

About surrender, there has been much talk in the spanish forum and MENDO gave the idea of having some kind of mix option. Volutary surrender from 4 to 10 Morale points and applying the old computer based surrender rule from 1 to 4 Morale points. I am not sure, but I believe that Munrox was thinking about it.

About a referee.....Maybe would be like a master in a roleplaying game, there is always somebody willing to do it.

Greetings

Pepcock
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 18, 2010, 03:41:57 am
Something is being cooked behind the scene...
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 18, 2010, 05:10:50 pm
    After my last post I was recalling the British Navy had a simple, equally unfair system; in actions any ship that was within sight of a surrender and participating in the activity (not meaning firing their guns, but under the same orders) shared EQUALLY in the prize money.
    That is if 3 frigates were sweeping for an enemy ship with lookouts 50' above the deck, that would put the horizon at approx 8.5 miles. If the center ship fought  & took an enemy vessel, the spoils would be shared  equally between 3 ships 17 miles appart. ::) In a fleet engagement, I believe all the captures were divided between all paricipants.
     This was to keep ships from sailing over one another trying to reach a Prize.

Yes, I see there is a math convention afoot in the Spanish Forum v.1.05  :o

Alas, my good Pepcock, the technocrats rule the world.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 19, 2010, 03:31:10 am
I didn't know that.

In the game, prize's value (in points) is divided into two parts, one half for the capturer, one half to be shared among the whole fleet.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 19, 2010, 06:10:01 pm
Probably each country was different; from Wikipedia about the Royal Navy:

 In the 16th and 17th centuries, captured ships were legally Crown property. In order to reward and encourage sailors' zeal at no cost to the Crown, it became customary to pass on all or part of a captured ship's value to the capturing captain for distribution to his crew.

This practice was formalized via the Cruizers and Convoys Act of 1708. An Admiralty Prize Court was established to evaluate claims and condemn prizes, and the scheme of division of the money was specified. This system, with minor changes, lasted throughout the colonial, Revolutionary, and Napoleonic wars.

Prizes were keenly sought, for the value of a captured ship was often such that a crew could make a year's pay for a few hours' fighting. Hence boarding and hand-to-hand fighting remained common long after naval cannons developed the ability to sink the enemy from afar.

All ships in sight of a capture shared in the prize money, as their presence was thought to encourage the enemy to surrender without fighting until sunk.

The distribution of prize money to the crews of the ships involved persisted until 1918.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 19, 2010, 06:37:03 pm
Very interesting. Thanks.

Now the new value "threat" has a bigger basis to exist.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 21, 2010, 12:44:50 pm
1) I do not see the message that explains what exactly Threat is specifically.

2) Are you adjusting the meaning and formula for all the "deduction words"
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 21, 2010, 01:33:42 pm
Threat is calculated in basis to the each enemy ship in shot range (750m): distance, class and hull status. Nearer ships create bigger threat, 1st class more than 2nd, intact hull more than damaged one.

I'm not sure what you mean in 2)

By the way, have you access to our wiki? I think I can set an account and pass for you if you have problems to do it, so you could help me updating or modifying the velmad's wiki (english version)
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Septiembre 22, 2010, 05:55:54 am
Are you adjusting the meaning and formula for all the "deduction words"?

I mean the things that deduct points or % from you capability: morale, fatigue, CC, etc. They seem so interrelated, that if you add a new factor (Threat), will that cause  the others to change in definition?

Translation
I signed up many months ago, but all the instructions and labels remain in spanish, so I cant figure out how to do anything. You would think something as large and international as wiki would have translations like you do, but I don't know how to find out.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Septiembre 22, 2010, 09:15:10 pm
Yes, that could happen. Fortunately the new threat concept doesn't mess other meanings. But of course as we add new concepts and new interrelations to the model (game), any minor change could modify (unintentionally) other many aspects and concepts.

About the wiki, I'm so sorry, I forgot it, I know we talked about it long time ago. Now I've changed the default interface language to english. I'm also playing with some different templates, I think I'll have to create a new one, but I have no time. so I think I will choose one already created by someone else and maybe modity it to our needs (if I find time).

Current wiki's url:
http://sg.velmad.com/wiki

I'll put a link on the velmad's main menu.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Diciembre 18, 2010, 02:56:51 pm
The Eveille collides with the Pluton
and her crew's fatigue increases in 1 points.
5 in her hull.
damage to the rig (3):
1 in foremast, 1 in mainmast, 1 in mizzenmast.

The Pluton remains entangled with Eveille
3 in her hull.
damage to the rig (4):
2 in foremast, 1 in mainmast, 1 in mizzenmast.

1) E & P hit, however I don't recall the descrition saying they were entangled.
2) Since the windward shiip remainned at NV and the downwind ship moved its stern away, they should have come apart.

3) Even if they hadn't, it does not seem right to call an attempt to seperate by one ship at low speed a "collision" with the accompanying damage.

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: Munrox en Diciembre 30, 2010, 07:27:47 pm
Le Guerrier is shooting a warning shot, so it causes no damage but forces Le Diamant to stop.

Le Diamant is a prize. Le Guerrier doesn't pretend to sunk her, just recapture her.
Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: edward pellew en Enero 17, 2011, 03:37:16 am
questions about masts

1)  I have a mast over the side, but I see no place to clear it. Where do you click to send a crew to remove a dragging mast, on the Options Column, the Ship, the Info Popup box??


2) if a fallen mast is reported on the Info page  Turn10
should the icon be available for Turn11 or
do you have to wait until T12 for the icon to appear?


Question about ENGLISH

The Montagu remains entangled with Royal George
118 in her hull.
damage to the rig (105):
60 in foremast, knocked down topgallant (mainmast), 15 in mizzenmast.

3) the english is not clear whether that describing damage to Montagu or Royal George?

4) we are both at NO SAil, I have only moved my rudder.
Why should there be so much additional damage???

Título: Re: SUGGESTIONS, QUESTIONS, and ANSWERS
Publicado por: EDB en Enero 18, 2011, 02:39:12 am
To clear a mast you should see an icon by the Port/Starboard section below options that denotes a fallen mast. click on that and a cutting team will be sent.

questions about masts

1)  I have a mast over the side, but I see no place to clear it. Where do you click to send a crew to remove a dragging mast, on the Options Column, the Ship, the Info Popup box??


2) if a fallen mast is reported on the Info page  Turn10
should the icon be available for Turn11 or
do you have to wait until T12 for the icon to appear?




Question about ENGLISH

The Montagu remains entangled with Royal George
118 in her hull.
damage to the rig (105):
60 in foremast, knocked down topgallant (mainmast), 15 in mizzenmast.

3) the english is not clear whether that describing damage to Montagu or Royal George?

4) we are both at NO SAil, I have only moved my rudder.
Why should there be so much additional damage???